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CZ 455 Lilja Varmint Taper 22 lr


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#1 jaia

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 03:32 PM

http://www.riflebarr...ucts/cz_455.htm


I've really, really tried not to give in to the temptation... :blush:

I've been testing and tweaking the 455 since August 2011, then Lilja offers match grade barrels.

Couldn't take it any more...just got to be too much for me, I admit it, I'm weak.

Ordered the Varmint Taper for my 455 American this afternoon in 22 lr...come on UPS!



There goes my tax refund... :P

Edited by Pdwight, 16 December 2012 - 10:02 AM.

jaia...just another interested amateur

#2 willquest

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 10:06 PM

Keep us updated and good luck. I’m very interested in how it turns out.
...behind the barn trying to find center.

#3 Swiss

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 06:27 AM

We sure expect a full range report...LOL

Congrads.

Swiss

#4 jaia

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 09:56 AM

I'll be happy to compare the Lilja barrel to the CZ original.

Lilja doesn't waste time in shipping an in-stock item.
I talked to the sales department at Lilja at 3 pm Montana time,
by 9 pm EST it was picked up and being tracked by UPS.

I'm hoping this new barrel will save me some money.
The guys I shoot with have a freindly competition at the end of the morning.
1 shot each from the same bench at the same target,
100 yards, shot farthest from the bullseye buys lunch.

Hard to be competitive when using a 22 squirrel rifle against a Kimber, 2 Annies and a Martini.
Only time I have a chance is when a front is blowing through! :lol:

Edited by jaia, 21 March 2012 - 10:15 AM.

jaia...just another interested amateur

#5 chance_of_rain

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 10:08 AM

Interested to see how this works out for you.

Chance...
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#6 RustyNut

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Posted 23 March 2012 - 05:08 PM

It was nice of you to added the website for us that are weak also. ;)

#7 jaia

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Posted 23 March 2012 - 06:12 PM

Hey Rusty, just doing my bit to help jump start the economy.

That and checking UPS tracking morning and evening, to see where my barrel is now. B)
jaia...just another interested amateur

#8 jaia

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 11:41 AM

The barrel arrived this morning.
Lilja ships it in a triangular box, well padded at both ends to absorb impacts.
The barrel is sealed inside a 6 mil plastic envelope, wrapped inside 3 turns of foam padding
and taped securely. Air tight and ding protected, they're almost as OCD as I am.

Posted Image

After unsealing the barrel, did a comparison between the CZ factory original and the Lilja match grade.

CZ 455 factory barrel 22lr
20.6 inches from breech to muzzle
0.860 inch diameter at receiver
straight taper to 0.540 inch diameter at muzzle
Weight 33 ounces, 6 groove rifling

Lilja Varmint Taper 22lr
21.0 inches from breech to muzzle
0.900 diameter at receiver and first 3 inches
then straight taper to 0.630 inch diameter at muzzle
Weight almost 40 ounces, 4 groove rifling

Posted Image

Chambering is very different. The 22lr cartridge drops into the CZ easily,
rim ends up in contact with the face of the breach, round wobbles in the CZ chamber.

Posted Image

In the Lilja barrel the rifling engages the bullet before the round is seated.
Sides of the case are in contact with the chamber walls as it slides in.
This is as far as it goes without pushing on the cartridge.

Posted Image

CZ muzzle has a slight chamfer at the bore/crown lip

Posted Image

The Lilja muzzle has a sharp, crisp edge

Posted Image

Edited by jaia, 27 March 2012 - 11:57 AM.

jaia...just another interested amateur

#9 dbp1stltartillery

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 12:28 PM

Jaia, congrats on the new addition. Maybe now you can start "eating their lunch" money. Thanks so much for showing the chamber with the round not going in all the way before it starts engraving the bullet and not wobbling..The light is starting to shine on the subject of bullet
graving/not engraving accuracy question. I appears that Lilja chooses to engrave the bullet and hold the case tighter, does it not. Hmm, the barrel pin alignment slots look kinda like the Remington 581S, huh. Maybe Que can look at them and give us his opinion..I do believe you will be eating at your friends table instead them at yours..Best of luck.. :D Dave Deo Vindice

PS: As an after thought. Did you try other brands of ammo re: engraving stopping the round at the same point.? It also appears Lilja decided to spread the exit gasses over a larger, less angular, and smoother area acting on the base of the bullet.

Edited by dbp1stltartillery, 27 March 2012 - 12:36 PM.

The national budget must be reduced; the arrogance of the authorities must be moderated and controlled. Payments to foreign governments must be reduced, if the nation doesn't want to go bankrupt. People must again learn to work ,instead of living on public assistance.

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#10 jaia

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 02:19 PM

Checked other ammunition in the chambers also, Dave
Federal, Wolf MT and ME and Eley tenex with the same results.

Tenon diameter on the Lilja is a tighter fit to the CZ 455 receiver also.
Threw my cheap caliper on it to check how tight.
CZ tenon has an outside diameter of 0.700 inches,
the Lilja tenon has an outside diameter of 0.706 inches
and the CZ 455 receiver has an inside diameter of 0.710 inches

Posted Image

The fit is so tight between the Lilja barrel and the CZ receiver that any milling burrs
that exist where the barrel and action screws come through need to be removed.

Posted Image

I'm thinking I may need to use temperature differential to ease the installation.
Heat the receiver with a blow drier or cool the barrel down with an ice pack.
jaia...just another interested amateur

#11 dbp1stltartillery

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 02:26 PM

Jaia, just checked some rounds in my 581S..Regular CCI did as your round did and stopped the same distance out..The CCI Blazer would go about 1/2 way before the shell would grab the chamber wall and stop. The Federal (don't know which one, just laying around) would plunk all the way in. Just got new post..Man am I learning more and more..Have not even shot my "newsed" 581 yet but I can assure you that when I find the right round I am going to use the drop in test to see if there is a correaltion..Enjoy reading your post.. Dave
The national budget must be reduced; the arrogance of the authorities must be moderated and controlled. Payments to foreign governments must be reduced, if the nation doesn't want to go bankrupt. People must again learn to work ,instead of living on public assistance.

Things never change.
And Rome Fell

CICERO~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~55 BC!!


ONCE THE PUBLIC REALIZES THEY CAN VOTE THEMSELVES MONEY FROM THE PUBLIC TREASURY THE REPUBLIC IS LOST..Ben Franklin and others.

#12 dbp1stltartillery

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 02:30 PM

Checked other ammunition in the chambers also, Dave
Federal, Wolf MT and ME and Eley tenex with the same results.

Tenon diameter on the Lilja is a tighter fit to the CZ 455 receiver also.
Threw my cheap caliper on it to check how tight.
CZ tenon has an outside diameter of 0.700 inches,
the Lilja tenon has an outside diameter of 0.706 inches
and the CZ 455 receiver has an inside diameter of 0.710 inches

Posted Image

The fit is so tight between the Lilja barrel and the CZ receiver that any milling burrs
that exist where the barrel and action screws come through need to be removed.

Posted Image

I'm thinking I may need to use temperature differential to ease the installation.
Heat the receiver with a blow drier or cool the barrel down with an ice pack.

I think a heat gun would be the way to go..More expansion on the receiver as opposed to limited shrink on the barrel from cooling. Dave
The national budget must be reduced; the arrogance of the authorities must be moderated and controlled. Payments to foreign governments must be reduced, if the nation doesn't want to go bankrupt. People must again learn to work ,instead of living on public assistance.

Things never change.
And Rome Fell

CICERO~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~55 BC!!


ONCE THE PUBLIC REALIZES THEY CAN VOTE THEMSELVES MONEY FROM THE PUBLIC TREASURY THE REPUBLIC IS LOST..Ben Franklin and others.

#13 dbp1stltartillery

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 02:33 PM

Jaia, from what I am reading I believe that your finger has developed a trigger itch of major proportions..Is that your tummy I hear growling in anticipation of eating Their Lunch...Dave
The national budget must be reduced; the arrogance of the authorities must be moderated and controlled. Payments to foreign governments must be reduced, if the nation doesn't want to go bankrupt. People must again learn to work ,instead of living on public assistance.

Things never change.
And Rome Fell

CICERO~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~55 BC!!


ONCE THE PUBLIC REALIZES THEY CAN VOTE THEMSELVES MONEY FROM THE PUBLIC TREASURY THE REPUBLIC IS LOST..Ben Franklin and others.

#14 jaia

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 04:30 PM

I don't mind buying the guys lunch, they've been willing to share what they know
and let me try out rimfire and centerfire rifles that are way out of my price range.
The cost of the ammunition they've let me fire in those rifles is probably a few lunches worth.
What I'd like to do is to just even the playing field a bit equipment wise for the "lunch" shoot.
Still won't help when it comes to judging wind drift...these guys have years of experience.

Machining ridges/heavy bluing inside the receiver prevented the Lilja from seating fully into the receiver.
Not even temperature differential helped in making the fit. Grabbed a tube of lapping compound
from the workbench, placed a drop in the receiver and hand lapped the tenon to just barely fit.

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Very tight compared to the CZ factory barrels. Assembled the rifle
and checked the headspace using Canuck's tip...

http://rimfireshooti...?showtopic=8279

Plastiguage showed 0.003 inches on a 0.040 inch thick rim empty 22lr casing,
which gives the Lilja a 0.043 inch headspace, I'm happy. Now I just need some range time.

Posted Image

Edited by jaia, 27 March 2012 - 04:48 PM.

jaia...just another interested amateur

#15 dbp1stltartillery

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 12:34 AM

Jaia, that is one great looking rig! I enjoyed traveling along with you on your journey to being a better shooter. Very well written and documented so that we could see exactly what you were talking about in your quest. Best of luck and let us know how it shoots. Dave Deo Vindice :D
The national budget must be reduced; the arrogance of the authorities must be moderated and controlled. Payments to foreign governments must be reduced, if the nation doesn't want to go bankrupt. People must again learn to work ,instead of living on public assistance.

Things never change.
And Rome Fell

CICERO~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~55 BC!!


ONCE THE PUBLIC REALIZES THEY CAN VOTE THEMSELVES MONEY FROM THE PUBLIC TREASURY THE REPUBLIC IS LOST..Ben Franklin and others.

#16 Pdwight

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 09:30 AM

Curious to see how that jewel is going to shoot, they sure delivered a much better polished product, I couldn't believe all the tool marks in the CZ barrel. I hope you wil have some head to head ammo comparisons for us soon with the two barrels.

Dwight
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for Zach, Everett, and Lilly

#17 jaia

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 03:31 PM

Remember those barrel dimensions?
The Lilja is larger in diameter the length of the barrel, affects stock clearance.
The forend of the stock is making contact with the underside of the barrel.
Got a little sanding to do to along the forward inch of the barrel inletting.

Made it to the range this afternoon...shooting at 50 yards from a test sled...breezy.
Today both the Lilja and the CZ barrels liked Wolf ME, didn't shoot as well with Eley Tenex.
A couple of samples...

Posted Image

With the CZ barrel free floated, it shifts position in the receiver a little each shot.
The results are typical for 10 round groups. 3 to 5 shots clustered tight
then 2 or 3 strays left or right of the main group. Annoying isn't it.

Even with the Lilja touching the forend of the stock it shoots right nice.
14 rounds in one hole with a single high flyer, but not by much.
Got a little sanding and resealing to do, then back to testing again.

Posted Image

Edited by jaia, 28 March 2012 - 03:34 PM.

jaia...just another interested amateur

#18 dbp1stltartillery

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 07:38 PM

Wow. Jaia..That 15 shot group is amazing!!!. I can't imagine how tight the groups will get when you get everything dialed in..Dave. Deo Vindice :D
The national budget must be reduced; the arrogance of the authorities must be moderated and controlled. Payments to foreign governments must be reduced, if the nation doesn't want to go bankrupt. People must again learn to work ,instead of living on public assistance.

Things never change.
And Rome Fell

CICERO~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~55 BC!!


ONCE THE PUBLIC REALIZES THEY CAN VOTE THEMSELVES MONEY FROM THE PUBLIC TREASURY THE REPUBLIC IS LOST..Ben Franklin and others.

#19 willquest

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 10:00 AM

Thanks for keeping us updated.

You have done a great job with the comparison as well as putting together a very nice rifle that shoots great! Well done.
...behind the barn trying to find center.

#20 Swiss

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 12:53 PM

Holy balls jaia.

Looks like you have a shooter.
Lilja kicks butt.

Swiss

Edited by Swiss, 29 March 2012 - 12:56 PM.


#21 jaia

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Posted 30 March 2012 - 01:48 PM

Swiss, Holy what? :lol:

Turkish walnut makes for slow sanding.
Sand some, vacuum the dust, check the fit.
don't want to over do the sanding and leave an ugly gap.
Highlighter fits the barrel inletting to maintain the shape.

Posted Image



GSR pattern on the Lilja crown looks like that of a centerfire rifle.

Posted Image


While waiting for the polyurethane to dry on the surfaces I sanded,
I wondered how much the center of gravity had shifted due to barrel weight.
Set up a strap on a rolling table to support the barrel/action and scope,
CG with the factory barrel is at 1-1/4 inches forward of the receiver.

Posted Image


The extra weight of the Lilja barrel shifts the CG to 2-1/4 inches forward of the receiver.
This new CG location is where I'm going to epoxy shim the Lilja barrel in the stock
to alleviate the load on the action screws and receiver. The larger diameter of the Lilja
means the shim won't interfere with either of the original factory barrels.

Posted Image

Using the epoxy shim technique as shown in this thread

http://rimfireshooti...?showtopic=8100

added the epoxy barrel support pad for the Lilja

Posted Image

The stock is now pillared, the stock inletting is epoxy shimmed for a tight fit to the receiver
and the extra weight of the new barrel supported, back to range testing.

Edited by jaia, 02 April 2012 - 09:03 PM.

jaia...just another interested amateur

#22 The Canuck

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Posted 02 April 2012 - 11:00 AM

Jaia, nice write up on the Lilja. The barrel tenon/ receiver fit is based on a nominal 18 mm blueprint dimension. 18mm is .7086". CZ manufactures the receiver bore to the + side of this nominal by up to .003" and I had not measured a tenon in about 2 dozen 455's I've done at less than .706". Its easier to keep a tight tolerance on the male than the female in machining. The receiver is also heat treated after machining and warps and bulges slightly so CZ prefers to go on the + side a fair amount in its manufacturing to avoid fitting problems later. I use a CMM machine at work to check the receivers and some are even out of round enough to get a tight fitting 18mm gage into it. Its nice to see that Dan can keep the tolerances tight on the tenon and very near the nominal 18mm they cannot go over.

If your checking head clearance to the bolt face using the plastigage on the Lilja barrel, make sure you drive that shell in all the way to get the rim to seat on the breach. The force to engrave the bullet is enough to give a false reading on the gage (on the tight side).

I am wondering why you are shimming the barrel out front like that. It defies the benefit of a free float barrel. Bear in mind that this isnt a 10/22 and that the varmint barrels are only a1/32" less in diameter than the Lilja, that extra support is not really needed unless it does somethng for dampening thats beneficial. Also, upon proper installation of the barrel, the bolt guide is snugged up before the barrel grub screws are tightened on the barrel. The flat tongue in the bolt guide nose is what draws the tenon up and levels it (for the claws to clear the slots). Since barrel O.D.'s are not concentric to the bore or the tenon (separate machining process) any slight change in how the barrel realigns itself to the bolt guide tongue could result in a less than perfect mate with the forward bedding. The bolt guide itself is less than a perfect/consistant alignment tool for the barrel since its held by the rear magwell screw at less than 10 in/lbs. If your going to remove that barrel I would advise putting a tiny index mark on its lip to receiver interface so you will get it more pricisely to index the same way when reinstalling.

Edited by The Canuck, 02 April 2012 - 11:18 AM.


#23 jaia

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Posted 02 April 2012 - 02:42 PM

Thanks Canuck, your follow up makes sense of what I found during my installation.
Used your headspace tip with an empty 22lr brass. It fit flush to the breech when plastigauging.
I decided on the barrel support pad as an experiment. It's easily removable as I didn't
sand the finish inside the stock before applying the epoxy. It's 3000 psi 5 minute epoxy
that remains somewhat flexible and acts as a vibration dampener also. I've removed
previous epoxy shims from the stock using a very sharp wood chisel. They peeled loose
as a single skin looking like fake fingernails.

Back to the range this afternoon with the 455 Lilja. :D Here's the results...

Disclaimer: I am in no way a competitive shooter, I lack the physical skills
and the experience needed. I am only an interested amateur as my forum handle indicates,
but I can say one thing about Lilja, they make righteously accurate rifle barrels!

This group was shot from a bench using Eley Tenex at a distance of 100 yards.
Ignore the dropper, it was an audibly weak round.

Posted Image

That four round group measures 0.30 inches from center to center at the widest distance.
Now I know what you're thinking...
There's no way that amateur is capable of shooting that group at one hundred yards!
Well, you'd be right...I am not able to shoot like that at any distance beyond 35 yards.
In fact, below is a typical group I shot from a bipod today, under the same conditions.
Using a bipod and rear bag this is what I can do at 100 yards

Posted Image

I am, however, quite capable of building a test rest to remove my shooting limitations
from the rimfire equation. This is what I use to test ammunition and to zero my scopes.

Posted Image

The test rest is what shot that 0.30" group at 100 yards.
Set it on the bench, level the cross legs, adjust the rear elevation wheel
until the scope crosshairs are centered on the target, reach over and squeeze.
The only way to obtain an honest evaluation of the Lilja capabilities
was to remove my lack of skill from the test. I'd say I'd accomplished that.


Up until now, I've been allowed to use the test rest for the lunch shoot.

That may change after next Sunday morning :P

Edited by jaia, 02 April 2012 - 05:21 PM.

jaia...just another interested amateur

#24 JWilliscroft

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Posted 02 April 2012 - 06:33 PM

That is amazing accuracy out of a .22 rimfire, rest or not !! I have two CZ 455s waiting trigger kits & glass. One in .17 HMR, one in .22 LR yours in going to be one hard act to follow, but it sure gets a guy thinking about importing a couple barrels, as soon as Lilja starts chambering the .17 !! Keep the posts coming ! Awesome information !!

#25 jaia

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 03:05 PM

I've got 4 complaints about the Lilja Varmint Taper... :angry2:

1) Draws too much attention because it changes the look of the CZ.
Once other CZ owners at the range recognize what it is,
they have to come over, look and hint that they'd like to try it.

2) Removes any possible way to blame a lousy shot on the rifle.
Now I'm going to have to work on some better excuses.

3) Really shows the difference between quality ammunition and cr*p.
You want to shoot it to it's capabilities? You have to feed it the good stuff.

4) Where am I going to store the factory barrel?

Other than that, it was worth every penny spent. B)


Lapping the receiver to fit the Lilja barrel tenon,
has changed the way the factory barrels fit, for the better.
It's improved the way they shoot too.

:P


April 8, 2012

Cheap, safe barrel storage solved. 22 inch long section of 2 inch schedule 40 pvc pipe,
a couple of 2 inch pvc end caps, a 22 inch section of 1 inch inside diameter black foam
hot water pipe insulation from the plumbing section, a 2 inch long section of the foam
jammed crossways in each of the end caps and a silica gel packet to absorb moisture.
Spare barrel is oiled and placed in the 6 mil shipping wrap inside the foam,
which slides easily into the 2 inch pipe. Foam padded end caps protect muzzle and breech.

Posted Image


April 9, 2012

More time at the range, shooting off the bipod and bag,
dialing the scope in after a barrel change.
Eley Tenex at 100 yards in a right to left crosswind.
The consistency of the Lilja barrel makes the process so much easier.

Posted Image


Even Federal bulk ammo shoots better through the Lilja. 50 yards off the bipod.
Not shooting the Fed dry though. Dipped the tips in air cooled 2 stroke oil.

Posted Image

Edited by jaia, 09 April 2012 - 09:04 PM.

jaia...just another interested amateur

#26 chance_of_rain

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 07:29 PM

jaia, You are making it hard for me to find excuses for not buying a 455. Other than I have many 452s that don't see the use that I would like to give them. Thank you for the write up. Starting to think I may buy a 455 American in 17 HMR and then buy the Lilja 22lr barrel.
Again thank you for your time and effort.

Happy Shooting !!! Chance...
Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security would deserve neither and lose both. -Ben Franklin

#27 jaia

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 07:37 AM

Sounds like a plan Chance...don't forget to order the spacer and pin
for the mag well. Otherwise the 22lr single shot adapter or magazine won't fit.

Still testing ammo, waiting on some Lapua to be delivered.
Wolf ME shoots better than the Eley Tenex at 50 yards.
At 100 yards though, the Tenex is better.

Posted Image

Not knowing what to compare that 0.30 inch 4 shot group at 100 yards to,
led me to the NBRSA records on line. Those guys can place 'em tight.

http://nbrsa.org/node/57#attachments
jaia...just another interested amateur

#28 Pdwight

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 09:20 AM

I am really enjoying watching this incredibly well written project (post) come along.

PS don't go "highlighting" and varmints at long distances with that :P
A hundred years from now it will not matter what my bank account was, the sort of house I lived in, or the kind of car I drove. But the world may be different, because I was important in the life of a child.

for Zach, Everett, and Lilly

#29 jaia

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 03:17 PM

Got a break from the wind this morning.
Rolled in the gate to the range and the flag was hanging motionless on the pole.
Finally a chance to shoot without attempting to compensate for wind gusts.
Shooting from the bench off bipod and bag I was able to see how much
difference the Lilja barrel would make for someone with my lack of skill.
100 yards and no wind using Wolf ME
The outer circle of the bullseyes is 7/8 inch diameter

No problem at all shooting sub-MOA :D

Edit: Ooops...top of the image as shown, was the left side of target.
Image needs to be rotated a quarter turn left, but then it won't fit on screen.

Can you imagine what this rifle and barrel would be capable of,
in the hands of someone who actually knows what they're doing?


Posted Image

Edited by jaia, 17 April 2012 - 03:38 PM.

jaia...just another interested amateur

#30 Swiss

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 02:21 PM

Most excellent thread here folks.

I love your home made shooting rest deal....Jaia.
You should do a thread on how you made that baby...I like that :)
Your barrel PVC storage device is what I also use for my fly rods, but I glued on the threaded end dealy-bob.

Swiss

Edited by Swiss, 18 April 2012 - 02:27 PM.


#31 jaia

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 07:17 PM

Hey Swiss, the rest started out as a work stand for cleaning and scope installations.
After being unable to understand why my rifle wouldn't hit exactly where I was aiming
and was throwing random fliers, the work rest was improved to eliminate human error,
so I could focus on what was really causing the problem.
If you'd like to get a closer look at how it's put together, here's a link to a web album...

https://picasaweb.go...LowTechTestRest

Click on the thumbnails in the album for larger images.


http://www.riflebarr...maintenance.htm

Lilja rimfire barrel cleaning instructons are extremely simple, doesn't need much.


April 23, 2012

Here's the final configuration of the CZ 455 Lilja...the Centerpoint 4-16x40 was ok as a hunting scope,
but the heavy crosshairs which work so well in the brush for taking squirrels, wasn't up to the job
of punching paper at 100 yards. The replacement is a Mueller 8-32x44 side focus, fine crosshair and target dot.
Makes a big difference in knowing when to squeeze when you can see all of the bullseye, instead of interpolating the center.

Posted Image

Posted Image


Out to the range again with 4 types of quality ammo, shooting at 50 yards from the bench,
using bipod and bag, fighting a 15 knot tailwind with the accompanying swirls and up/downdrafts.
Even so, the Lilja makes a big difference in letting me learn what I'm doing right or wrong.
I know that when I hit off center it's me, and not the rifle anymore. The CZ 455 Lilja is a one-holer
when the conditions are good. A couple times today I thought I'd missed the target completely,
but closer inspection showed 2 and 3 rounds hitting the same spot. Never done that before intentionally.

Here's the results, 5 round groups of assorted "pricey" 22lr ammo

Posted Image

Posted Image
Yes, the bullseye to the lower left of the dime is a 5 shot group. wind died for a couple minutes. B)

Would I recommend purchasing the Lilja?
Only if you have the extra cash and are willing to pay for and use the high end ammo.
For plinking or hunting small game, the factory barrels are more than adequate,
especially the .17 hmr configuration. But if you want to build your own bench rest sporter
to compete with, even if it's just for the lunch tab, the Lilja makes a big difference. :P

Edited by jaia, 24 April 2012 - 03:31 PM.

jaia...just another interested amateur

#32 dbp1stltartillery

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 08:24 PM

Wow! Jaia, looks like your rifle kinda likes all of them..Those are some great groups... Have you tried the cheapy CCI Standard Velocity to see if it may save you some money? ..Dave..Deo Vindice

Edited by dbp1stltartillery, 26 April 2012 - 11:37 AM.

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#33 ghgs

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 08:09 AM

Hello Jaia,
I'm a new member getting back into shooting after a 15 years. Great info here!
Things have changed a lot since then so I'm trying to learn some new tips.
You mentioned "Dipped the tips in air cooled 2 stroke oil" when shooting standard ammo.
Could you tell me more about this process?
What and how much do you use?
Did it improve the acuracy of less expensive ammo?

Glen

#34 jaia

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 12:33 PM

Dave, funny you should mention CCI-SV, 4 bricks arrived Tuesday morning.
Unable to find locally so I have to order on line. My favorite inexpensive ammo
for both rifle and semi-auto pistols. Shot a few rounds for testing/practice
off bipod and bag this morning. SW tailwinds, right to left across the range
at 10 to 15 mph, making for some interesting bullet trajectories.

Some 5 shot groups at 50 and 100 yards, serious spread at 100 yds


Posted Image


To get out of the wind, headed to the south side of the 50 yard range
closest to the side berm and tree line to try some mini-USBR targets.
More fun than shooting groups as I can see what the wind does to my shot pattern.
You can see when I caught a gust and where it sent the bullet.
I need to fabricate some shooting flags to start learning how to read wind and time my shots.
I've got holding my point of aim figured out, now I nead to learn how to adjust for wind.

CCI-SV fired from the Lilja is as good, or better, than Wolf ME from my factory CZ 22lr barrel.


50 yards off bipod and bag
Posted Image


Glen, I'm not all that knowledgeable when it comes to shooting, just an amateur.
But there is so much information available on line, regarding every possible tweak
that someone has thought up and tried, in order to squeeze the last bit of performance
from a handgun or rifle. There are pages of commentary and testing of bullet lubes
ranging from commercially available products to home made concoctions. I wanted to try some
bulk Federal 36 grain copper washed hollow points in the Lilja, but not without additional lubrication.
So I used some Echo 2 stroke weed eater oil to lubricate the bullets. Put a bottle cap full of the oil
on the bench, and as I pulled a round from the box, dipped it to just before it touched the brass,
then touched it to the edge of the cap to remove the excess before chambering.
Surprising how much of a difference that makes in the behavior of cheap ammunition.
Cut group size in half due to the drop in friction. Still not as accurate as match ammo,
but fun to play with and see the difference.


April 29, 2012

Not the closest to the bullseye...but not the farthest either.
Got lucky with the wind and caught a lull.
Ya' know, lunch tastes better for some reason, when you don't have to pay for it. B)

Edited by jaia, 29 April 2012 - 10:35 AM.

jaia...just another interested amateur

#35 stubeeef

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Posted 26 May 2012 - 07:43 AM

Awesome thread, love the benchrest too btw!
So, looking like a 455 American YoDave, Nikon BDC glass-with the Lilja Barrel. Then I just found a project from my left over Brazilian Cherry floors-A gorgeous bench rest!
Super stuff Jaia...Congrats and a big Thank You from the newbie wannabies!

#36 The Canuck

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Posted 13 June 2012 - 11:14 PM

Jaia, what do you think of the Mueller? I have the same one on my 455THV and love it, although it draws some snickers from some old timers that think its too much glass for a 22. Pushes the weight of my 455 up to 9 lbs 2 oz. I don't bring my spotting scope to the range any more since I can clearly see my shots on regular targets out to 100 yrds.

BTW, not many folks know this but if the A/O adjustment knob is not calibrated to correspond to the actual yardage, the cap on it can be pried off and a screw loosened underneith to reset it. Mine was out by about 6 yards. The folks at Mueller can explain how its done if you call them. You had mentioned your not an exceptionally seasoned shooter. Hopefully you understand that the A/O turret when set using the head bob method, is usually somewhat off of where it would be using target focus. The head bob method will iliminate any parallax error.

#37 jaia

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 05:53 AM

You had mentioned your not an exceptionally seasoned shooter.


Very little experience with bench rest or competitive shooting. :blush:

But I do have 30 plus years of stalking tree rats with an old marlin 60. ;)

That don't count as experience though, because by the time a shot was fired,
I was close enough to the squirrel to hit it with a sling shot. :P


What do you think of the Mueller?


http://muelleroptics.com/mu83244td

There is a world of difference between a dedicated target scope and an inexpensive hunting scope.
In the woods, I keep my hunting scopes set at the lowest power for the widest field of view and the
heavy crosshairs are easy to see in low light conditions (shade, early morning, late afternoon).
At the range the heavy crosshairs are an impediment at distances over 50 yards as they occlude
the bullseye. End up having to interpolate the target center from the shape of the outer rings.
The Mueller 8-32x44 with the target reticle, having very fine crosshairs and target dot allow for
extreme precision when sighting the x at 100 plus yards. Probably the best value for cost
in the target scope market at this time. Clear optics, very fine adjustments for windage and elevation
easy to feel each individual click on the turrets, side focus control all make for a quality scope.
Made a major improvement in my accuracy. If you can't see the target clearly, you can't hit it.

eliminate any parallax error


Plenty of experience with optics and scopes, 40 years working as a land surveyor
using optical levels and theodolites. If you haven't focused properly and removed
parallax, then the measurements taken with the equipment will be inaccurate and will
affect the mathmatical closure checks run to prove the horizontal/vertical traverse.

Edited by jaia, 16 June 2012 - 11:46 AM.

jaia...just another interested amateur

#38 jaia

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 11:47 AM

A few last comments to offer regarding adding the Lilja barrel to the CZ 455
and after sending 2500 plus rounds down the bore...

1) it's been fun

2) It's been a great learning tool. I understand much more of the mechanical
aspects, of obtaining accuracy from a rimfire rifle, than when I started.

3) The CZ 455 I have does not like the barrel to be free floated, at all!

I've tested just about every shim setup there is, and this is what works:

Posted Image

Brass pillars for the stock screws, epoxy dot shims to bed the receiver,
an epoxy shim to support the center of gravity of the barrel/action/scope
and a forestock shim to eliminate stock flex and dampen vibrations.
The forestock shim is an epoxy shim topped with a layer of silicon sealant
covered with aluminum foil to ensure the sealant didn't react with the gun oil on the barrel.

With this setup if you were to draw a circle with a 0.22 inch radius
and sight crosshairs on the center of the circle like so...

Posted Image


Then, when using a test rest and firing match grade ammo at 50 yards
be it Eley Tenex, Lapua Midas Plus or Wolf ME, with no wind,
when you get done shooting, the inside of the circle will be gone

Posted Image


4) I'm no longer allowed to use the test rest for the lunch shoot :(

5) Doesn't matter because my skills off bipod and bag have improved :P

6) Wind flags do make a difference, once you learn to pay attention to them! ;)
Easy to make also: http://rimfireshooti...?showtopic=8486

Posted Image

7) It doesn't matter how good your rifle is, if the ammo isn't consistent.

8) It doesn't matter how good your rifle is, if the wind is blowing and you can't adjust for it. :blush:

Posted Image
That's just sad...but still better than minute of squirrel! :lol:




12 July 2012

Forgot one important observation, regarding accuracy and the ability to change barrels/calibers with the 455,
over the past year I've been swapping back and forth between 22lr and 17 hmr on a weekly basis. Once the
action was pillared and shimmed solidly to the stock, accuracy stayed the same. As long as the same torque
is used each time the rifle is assembled, the behavior of each barrel remains unchanged.

Edited by jaia, 12 July 2012 - 11:30 AM.

jaia...just another interested amateur

#39 nx95240

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 01:17 PM

after reading this post 100 of times the 455 was on my list to buy but now i hope to order it bu wed this week. thank you for post up all this and please kept posting . thanks .....

#40 jaia

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 09:49 AM

Needed a break from working on Heavy Metal, so headed to the range this am.
Bipod and bag off the bench at 50 yards shooting CCI SV from the Lilja.
Took all of a new box and some leftovers from a previous trip before I was warmed up.
Then for giggles I sent 50 rounds through the bottom left bullseye.
Squirrels are gonna be in for serious trouble this fall! ;)

Good thing CCI SV is cheap... :P

Posted Image

Edited by jaia, 15 August 2012 - 04:23 PM.

jaia...just another interested amateur

#41 Patrick N

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 09:29 PM

Hey Jaia,

Would you happen to know what your 455 weighs with the Lilja barrel and no scope?
Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by trying to make it tougher for sober people to own cars.

#42 jaia

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Posted 29 September 2012 - 05:50 AM

The CZ 455 (no scope), with pillars, epoxy shims and the factory barrel weighs 6.15 lbs.
Installing the Lilja Varmint Taper barrel brings the weight up to 6.60 lbs.
Makes sense as the factory 22lr barrel weighs 2.06 lbs, the Lilja is almost 2.5 lbs.

Edited by jaia, 29 September 2012 - 08:13 AM.

jaia...just another interested amateur

#43 Patrick N

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Posted 29 September 2012 - 04:03 PM

The CZ 455 (no scope), with pillars, epoxy shims and the factory barrel weighs 6.15 lbs.
Installing the Lilja Varmint Taper barrel brings the weight up to 6.60 lbs.
Makes sense as the factory 22lr barrel weighs 2.06 lbs, the Lilja is almost 2.5 lbs.


Thank for the info jaia. I was just thinking that with a light enough scope and rings that might make a really nice rifle for rimfire sporter shooting But at 6.6# the scope and rings would have to be really light to make the 7.5" weight limit.
Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by trying to make it tougher for sober people to own cars.

#44 jaia

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Posted 29 September 2012 - 05:06 PM

I had a Centerpoint 3-9x32 on the CZ 455 with factory barrel, mildot scope,
fixed parallax at 35 yards, came with aluminum rings, added 0.8 lbs to the setup.
So the total weight would be 7.4 lbs and no problem seeing the bullseye at 50 and 25 yards.
With it zeroed at 25, I held 1 mil dot high at 50, worked pretty good off the rest.
Shooting offhand though the results were just embarrassing.
Scope is not the problem, I need to brace on a log, fence post or tree to hit what I aim at. :blush: ^_^
Not something that's allowed in the CMP competition. :P


Still trying out ideas chasing that last bit of accuracy.
Latest test is barrel shims the length of the forestock.
Used the same technique as I did with the epoxy dot action shims.

Posted Image

Difference is, this time, there's a very tiny drop of high temperature silicon gasket adhesive
applied to the center of the foremost epoxy shim before dropping the action and barrel into place.
Virtually eliminates any movement or vibration that might be caused by thermal expansion.
To remove the barrel, braided fishing line is worked between the barrel and shim to cut the silicon adhesive.


09/30/2012

Ammo delivery this week: SK Pistol Match, Lapua Midas +, buncha Blazer and Federal bulk
so the range morning was fun. Testing using the bedded Lilja barrel off of bipod and bag,
trying different grips and squeezes. Best groups were obtained by applying counterclockwise
pressure through the ball of the trigger finger. Too tight a grip produced left to right spread
and too lose a grip created vertical spread. The SK Pistol Match shot as well as the Midas +.
Blazer pulled tight threesomes then slung a stray. Federal did the usual quarter sized groups at 50 yards.
I'd get a tight group going, today, 2 or 3 in the same hole and get excited and mess up the next shots
by thinking too much. Really need to relax to shoot well. Tense just creates too much body movement
that transfers to the rifle and throws things off. I don't even bother bringing the test rest anymore.
Boring as watching paint dry, when the rounds keep hitting in the same spot. :P

Posted Image

Posted Image

Edited by jaia, 01 October 2012 - 11:05 AM.

jaia...just another interested amateur

#45 candyman

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 10:03 AM

Hi Jaja,

I am an recreational shooter from the Netherlands, because in europe we dont have many sites that review or show tests, reviews etc etc from fire arms i stumbled upon this.

Really liked you're review and i own an cz 455 thumb-hole varmint .22lr. ( with the appropriate certificates needed ofc)

cz455.jpg
thats my setup. just shooting of bipod with none rest only my hands using the rifle. i do sat down i a chair though. The shooting is in doors because we almost dont have places outdoors like you in the states have. ( and the fact it rains A LOT and cold temps )

This is what i shoot with sk standard I did "clean" the bullets with an cloth, wiping the excessive wax. I found them more accurate doing so. I do have the straight varmint heavy barrel ( stock )

( pic is in next post to big!)
Did you tried the sk standard ??

Greetins from around the Globe

Frank

Edited by candyman, 14 December 2012 - 10:26 AM.


#46 candyman

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 10:20 AM

sk standard.jpg group at 50 mtrs ( 55 yards??)

Edited by candyman, 14 December 2012 - 10:25 AM.


#47 Patrick N

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 12:10 PM

Welcome to Rimfire Shooting Frank! Nice looking 455 Varmint. Good shooting too.
Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by trying to make it tougher for sober people to own cars.

#48 jaia

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 03:01 PM

Welcome to RFS, Frank.
There weren't any reviews out there when I picked up my Lilja for the 455,
so I documented what I learned and posted the info. Good you enjoyed it,
looks like a few other folks out there found it interesting also. Coming up on 5000 views today.
Tried the SK Standard Plus, performance equals that of Wolf Match Target.
I'm actually otaining better results from Fiocchi Pistol Match, SK Pistol Match
and CCI Pistol Match shooting from bipod and rear bag with the 455 Lilja.
I'll send 100 to 150 rounds of CCI SV to remember how to shoot after working all week,
then send 50 to 100 rounds of the Pistol Match to work on my skills.
The Black and White mini-monster from the Just Targets section isn't easy.
Still plenty of room for improvement... :blush: ^_^
jaia...just another interested amateur

#49 candyman

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 03:34 PM

not doing bad at al ! as i said try to clean the wax a bit of, dont rub it off just wipe :)
I did this and shot with an clean barrel. i got an other scope wich need to be tested and mounted, and bought ( a brick you call it i think) 2x 500 rounds
of sk rifle match. Its a bit weird with the wax story though. I read that it can take 50 rounds to make it settle and improve accuracy. Btw youre grouping on
100yrds :blink: nice thats definitely better after the liljia barrel!
I dont think i will be able to get that barrel in The Netherlands :wacko: . Maybe looking in to an LW barrel. but not getting any response.

I'll post some pics in a week orso ( this weekend there is an xmas shoot.) Keep us posted too JaJa. Its interesting!!!
Ps breathing is everything shooting smallbore and with a lot of magnification keep that in mind ;)


THnx for all the welcomes ppl!!! :tumbs:

good thing about the internet :)

Edited by candyman, 14 December 2012 - 03:34 PM.


#50 Walt

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 09:41 AM

Thanks for the link in your other post Jaia. This was well worth the read and a excellent follow through with the stock and barrel. Now it's just a matter of saving for a new barrel.

Walt
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#51 Walt

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 09:43 AM

Hi Jaja,

I am an recreational shooter from the Netherlands, because in europe we dont have many sites that review or show tests, reviews etc etc from fire arms i stumbled upon this.

Really liked you're review and i own an cz 455 thumb-hole varmint .22lr. ( with the appropriate certificates needed ofc)

cz455.jpg
thats my setup. just shooting of bipod with none rest only my hands using the rifle. i do sat down i a chair though. The shooting is in doors because we almost dont have places outdoors like you in the states have. ( and the fact it rains A LOT and cold temps )

This is what i shoot with sk standard I did "clean" the bullets with an cloth, wiping the excessive wax. I found them more accurate doing so. I do have the straight varmint heavy barrel ( stock )

( pic is in next post to big!)
Did you tried the sk standard ??

Greetins from around the Globe

Frank

Welcome to the forum Frank. Missed your post earlier. Very nice looking CZ you got there.

Walt
Walt Miller

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Saving just one dog won't change the world....but surely the world will change for that one dog.

It doesn't matter if the glass is half empty or half full...Be grateful you have a glass, and there is something in it...

#52 djdilliodon

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 11:12 AM

Jaia, very nice setup you got going! I see you had to lap the receiver. Any chance your serial number starts with an "A"? I did one with the "A" prefix and it also had to be lapped. Mine and others with a "B" prefix it just dropped right in!

#53 gillchaser

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 11:54 AM

I need more pics of groups for different ammo please . Right now I'm back on the fence with the Lilja barrel. Not bragging and not dissing on your groups , they are nice groups , but on my good days with the right conditions I've equaled the groups I've seen so far with my 452 varmints with Wolf MT and some Aguila ammo out to 50 yards . I've just lately started experimenting with 100 yard groups , if I get a decent weather day and those don't come often . Even a little wind can really mess up some groups. If you don't mind me asking , how did the factory barrel shoot for you?
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#54 jaia

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 12:47 PM

It's an "A", dj, just like your's was.

Right now I'm back on the fence with the Lilja barrel.


I understand that...a Lilja ain't cheap. My only reason for purchasing one was to try
and equal the benchrest rifles being used by more knowledgeable gents at the local range.
For hunting and plinking the factory barrels were more than adequate, just not benchrest accurate.
I attribute the majority of inaccuracy to my own lack of shooting skills. The rest goes to
stock flex, barrel movement, factory trigger and the assembly line produced factory barrel.
At 50 yards, from a test rest, the factory barrel produced consistent 3/4 inch groups
using match grade ammo, with enough moa/sub-moa groups showing up to keep me trying.
Installing the Lilja and firing from a test rest, showed just how much difference there is
between a match grade barrel and an assembly line barrel. Problem is, you have to use
expensive match ammuntion to see the difference. Using inexpensive ammo, you might as well
keep using the CZ factory barrel, as the ammo quality has more effect on accuracy than the barrel does.
I'm using the Lilja to learn how to shoot from a bench, and shoot accurately. I know that I can't blame
the rifle anymore, as a result, over the past six months my skills off bipod and bag have improved.
That improvement alone made the price of the Lilja worth it. I'll never be a competition shooter,
I have no desire to be one. All I wanted was to have a rifle, that when you put the crosshairs
on the bullseye and squeezed, the bullet would hit where the crosshairs were aiming.
The fact that I'm still pulling to one side or the other is my fault... :blush: ^_^

It's sad when you see the hole appear in the target, a half inch left of where you were aiming,
and realize that at the moment the hole appeared, that's where the crosshairs were. :wacko:

Edited by jaia, 22 December 2012 - 01:02 PM.

jaia...just another interested amateur

#55 djdilliodon

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 05:52 PM

As Jaia stated already most of his groups are shot from a bipod. To really know what the rifle can do it has to be shot from a rest to eliminate human error.

#56 guypike

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 07:07 PM

This has been a very interesting thread. I put the straight taper .900 17hm2 barrel on my 455 Lux right out of the box. Only change was opening the the barrel channel. The very first group after sight in was better than my CZ, Marlin, Savage, Anschutz, and H&R 17 Mach 2s. Of course I shoot Eley ammo. I did try Hornady and CCI ammo in each rifle as well. the Lilja shoots all of it better. This was no surprise as I have Lilja barreled H&R in 17hmr and one in 7.62x25. Great project and excellent report!

Edited by guypike, 22 December 2012 - 07:08 PM.


#57 jaia

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 07:15 PM

I put the straight taper .900 17hm2 barrel on my 455 Lux


I'm waiting for the .17 hmr barrels that Lilja is supposed to be working on this winter.
Already have a good start in my change jar on the nightstand. Looking forward to comparing
the factory 17 hmr barrel to the Lilja version. Should be fun. ^_^
jaia...just another interested amateur

#58 Walt

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 07:32 PM

This has been a very interesting thread. I put the straight taper .900 17hm2 barrel on my 455 Lux right out of the box. Only change was opening the the barrel channel. The very first group after sight in was better than my CZ, Marlin, Savage, Anschutz, and H&R 17 Mach 2s. Of course I shoot Eley ammo. I did try Hornady and CCI ammo in each rifle as well. the Lilja shoots all of it better. This was no surprise as I have Lilja barreled H&R in 17hmr and one in 7.62x25. Great project and excellent report!

I would be very interested in seeing some target results from your 17hm2. I have been thinking about one for my 455. I have a savage in 17hm2 and it shoots Hornady better then the Eley but I still have trouble with flyers and that is using a tuner also. I can put one right in the middle of the 10 and the next one is in the 4 ring, of course thats shooting in 38 degree weather also.Driving me crazy.

Edited by Walt, 22 December 2012 - 07:34 PM.

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#59 gillchaser

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 08:30 PM

(Quote ". Problem is, you have to use
expensive match ammuntion to see the difference. Using inexpensive ammo, you might as well
keep using the CZ factory barrel, as the ammo quality has more effect on accuracy than the barrel does." Quote ) To me Wolf MT is expensive . Duplicating shots with a rimfire difficult , it doesn't take much to throw one. And i know when its me . Throwing one out when its one of the first three shots hurts ,but when you've put three into a ragged hole , that fourth and fifth shot gets tougher . I think that's wht makes it fun . If I'm correct , you have an CZ American stock ? Have you given any thought in changing stocks out for one that's more bench friendly and losing the bipod ? Kirby
>}}}}}> ------->}}}}}>------->}}}}}>------->}}}}}>
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#60 jaia

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 09:03 PM

Have you given any thought in changing stocks out for one that's more bench friendly and losing the bipod ?


Looked at the Manners, same as used in the CZ Precision Trainer, but decided against it.
Don't confuse me with someone who actually has the skills and equipment for competitive shooting.
I'm not a true benchrest shooter. No high-tech mechanical/adjustable rest, rear bags are some polyester socks
filled with pinto beans. I'm a hobbyist with a need to tinker with my tools. I shoot/practice from the bench
to improve the way I shoot when hunting small game. Braced on some solid object, using a woods safe trigger
that pulls at 3.5 lbs, with a bipod to use as a grip or support, in order to hit a nickle sized target.
That nickle sized target being the kill zone of a squirrel or rabbit skull at distances from 10 to 100 yards.
If I want to shoot in a manner that isolates my lack of skill, I bring my test rest along. But that's just boring.
No skill needed, no concentration, no room for improvement, just round after round hitting the same spot,
within the limitations of the ammunition used and the wind conditions.

Edited by jaia, 22 December 2012 - 09:07 PM.

jaia...just another interested amateur

#61 gillchaser

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 09:37 PM

I understand you fully . I wasn't talking about shooting " free rifle" where you remove all contact with the rifle except the tip of your trigger finger . I shoot off a Caldwell front sight and rear bag , but I'm still holding the rifle and most of my CZs have factory springs in them . I've not tried shooting off a bench bipod , but I've read it can be difficult . I shoot hunter class field target with my Air Arms air rile off a free standing PoleCat bipod . It's challenging . The groups you're shooting off a bipod and with that trigger are impressive , but to really ring out all that Lilja is capable of , you may have to change a couple things . Kirby
>}}}}}> ------->}}}}}>------->}}}}}>------->}}}}}>
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#62 jaia

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 10:35 PM

to really ring out all that Lilja is capable of, you would have to change a couple things...


...like the stock, the trigger, the shooter.

fixed it for ya' ;)
jaia...just another interested amateur

#63 gillchaser

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 06:30 AM

I don't think you're giving yourself the credit due . If you were to try a different rest set up , you might find it easier to shoot those bugholes . Kirby
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#64 jaia

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 08:24 AM

It's all good, kirby. All I have to do is look at my targets to know the limits of my abilities. :P


limits.JPG
jaia...just another interested amateur

#65 guypike

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 09:10 PM

Walt, I had posted targets on RFC but have since lost all computers except my IPad. the LILja was holding 3/8 groups at 100yds in dead calm conditions. Icould hold just under an inch if I read my wind flags correctly up to about 15 mph. I'm waiting for the single set tigger to be available and will add this feature. Merry Christmas, Guy

#66 Walt

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 06:35 PM

I don't mind buying the guys lunch, they've been willing to share what they know
and let me try out rimfire and centerfire rifles that are way out of my price range.
The cost of the ammunition they've let me fire in those rifles is probably a few lunches worth.
What I'd like to do is to just even the playing field a bit equipment wise for the "lunch" shoot.
Still won't help when it comes to judging wind drift...these guys have years of experience.

Machining ridges/heavy bluing inside the receiver prevented the Lilja from seating fully into the receiver.
Not even temperature differential helped in making the fit. Grabbed a tube of lapping compound
from the workbench, placed a drop in the receiver and hand lapped the tenon to just barely fit.





Posted Image

Very tight compared to the CZ factory barrels. Assembled the rifle
and checked the headspace using Canuck's tip...

http://rimfireshooti...?showtopic=8279

Plastiguage showed 0.003 inches on a 0.040 inch thick rim empty 22lr casing,
which gives the Lilja a 0.043 inch headspace, I'm happy. Now I just need some range time.


Jaia, this part had me worried when I ordered my Lilja barrel but decided to go ahead with it. Received my barrel to day and the first thing I did after unwrapping it was try slipping it into the stock receiver to see what I would have to do. Well it fit perfect just like the factory barrel did. No need to do any lapping, just tighten down the set screws and it's good to go. I did have to enlarge the barrel grove but I did that while waiting for the barrel and only had a little to finish off the fit. I didn't want to do any bedding with it as I am waiting on a second's varmint stock to become available then we will see what it needs. Used a shot of poly varnish to reseal the barrel grove where I sanded it down and just waiting for it to dry. Should be able to put every thing back together tomorrow. Then when the weather warms up off to the range for sight in.

If this works out there just might be a .17 HM2 barrel in the future.

Walt
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#67 Patrick N

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 07:45 PM

Jaia, this part had me worried when I ordered my Lilja barrel but decided to go ahead with it. Received my barrel to day and the first thing I did after unwrapping it was try slipping it into the stock receiver to see what I would have to do. Well it fit perfect just like the factory barrel did. No need to do any lapping, just tighten down the set screws and it's good to go. I did have to enlarge the barrel grove but I did that while waiting for the barrel and only had a little to finish off the fit. I didn't want to do any bedding with it as I am waiting on a second's varmint stock to become available then we will see what it needs. Used a shot of poly varnish to reseal the barrel grove where I sanded it down and just waiting for it to dry. Should be able to put every thing back together tomorrow. Then when the weather warms up off to the range for sight in.

If this works out there just might be a .17 HM2 barrel in the future.

Walt


Congrats on the new barrel Walt! I look forward to reading your evaluation.
Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by trying to make it tougher for sober people to own cars.

#68 guypike

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 08:12 PM

All right Walt! My barrel slid right in as well. Don't know what kind of weather you're experiencing there, We're down near zero at night with mid to high twenties during the day. Definately let us know! My best, Guy

Edited by guypike, 02 January 2013 - 08:13 PM.


#69 jaia

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 08:50 PM

Jaia, this part had me worried when I ordered my Lilja barrel but decided to go ahead with it. Received my barrel to day and the first thing I did after unwrapping it was try slipping it into the stock receiver to see what I would have to do. Well it fit perfect just like the factory barrel did. No need to do any lapping, just tighten down the set screws and it's good to go.


Walt, from what I've read on line, only a few 455 receivers have needed lapping to fit the Lilja tenon.
I happened to be one of the lucky ones. Lapping to fit isn't a difficult process. Only a couple minutes work.
It was almost the same process as doing a valve job on an internal combustion engine.
Small amount of compound applied to the surfaces involved, rotate slowly by hand,
and when you feel the parts seat, you're done. Clean off all the compound, lubricate and install.
I'm kinda glad I had to, as I know just how snug the tenon/receiver fit on my 455 really is. ^_^

I'll be watching for your range report...

Don't forget, the 455 walnut stocks flex, a barrel support pad and forestock shim, works. ;)
jaia...just another interested amateur

#70 gillchaser

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 09:40 PM

Congrats on the new barrel Walt. Looking forward to your report .If any of you who have replaced your factory varmint 22 lr barrel decides to sell it , let me know . I'd like to give a heavy factory barrel a try . Kirby

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#71 Walt

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 07:24 AM

All right Walt! My barrel slid right in as well. Don't know what kind of weather you're experiencing there, We're down near zero at night with mid to high twenties during the day. Definately let us know! My best, Guy

Were in the upper 30's durning the day and 20's at night. It will be a while until the weather changes.
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#72 Walt

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 07:28 AM

Congrats on the new barrel Walt. Looking forward to your report .If any of you who have replaced your factory varmint 22 lr barrel decides to sell it , let me know . I'd like to give a heavy factory barrel a try . Kirby

Thanks Kirby. This replaced a factory standard taper 22lr barrel. I had been waiting for the factory to offer a replacement varmint barrel but looks like there not going to. Would most likly kill off there sales of varmint rifles.

Walt
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It doesn't matter if the glass is half empty or half full...Be grateful you have a glass, and there is something in it...

#73 gillchaser

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 07:50 AM

Walt , how did your factory tapered barrel shoot ? Wouldnt mind seeing a comparison between the Lilja and factory barrel. They have the 22lr heavy Varmint barrels listed on the CZ USA webstore , but out of stock , "ship date unknown" , I'm thinking (hope) they are on that slow boat that's bringing the next big shipment of rifles and accessories ( like the drop in SST trigger ) Kirby
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#74 Walt

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 09:07 AM

I will have to change barrel's when the weather warms up this spring to give a comparision. The factory taper would have been good enough for say sillouette,hunting etc. I only shoot USBR as thats the only format that our director offers. :( He's fixated on setting records.
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#75 jaia

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 06:32 PM

Been three months since I've done a real cleaning on the 455 Lilja.
Pulled it apart this evening ready to get dirty, didn't happen. :huh:
Disassembled everything and was surprised by the lack of GSR.
I fire about 150 to 250 rounds a week, through the Lilja, so
that means I've shot about 3500 rounds since the last real cleaning.
Face of the bolt had a trace of oil and a smudge of carbon,
but nothing that a single q-tip coudn't remove on one pass.
Extractors had some dust but were still basically clean.
The only real grime I found was was on the feed ramp,
and that was all bullet lube. Bore was just about immaculate
even though all I do is pull a couple of dry patches through
at the end of a shooting session. Appears that the tight fit
of the match chamber prevents almost all blowback and so
eliminates any real buildup in the receiver. Very nice. ^_^

Edited by jaia, 14 January 2013 - 07:13 PM.

jaia...just another interested amateur

#76 Walt

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 07:05 PM

Been three months since I've done a real cleaning on the 455 Lilja.
Pulled it part this evening ready to get dirty, didn't happen. :huh:
Disassembled everything and was surprised by the lack of GSR.
I fire about 150 to 250 rounds a week, through the Lilja, so
that means I've shot about 3500 rounds since the last real cleaning.
Face of the bolt had a trace of oil and a smudge of carbon,
but nothing that a single q-tip coudn't remove on one pass.
Extractors had some dust but were still basically clean.
The only real grime I found was was on the feed ramp,
and that was all bullet lube. Bore was just about immaculate
even though all I do is pull a couple of dry patches through
at the end of a shooting session. Appears that the tight fit
of the match chamber prevents almost all blowback and so
eliminates any real buildup in the receiver. Very nice. ^_^

Thanks for that Jaia, now I'm looking more forward to shooting mine if the weather ever gives me a chance.
Walt
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#77 chance_of_rain

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 07:32 PM

jiaia, you are making really hard to say no to a 455. The only thing holding me back is the NEED for a 527 Varmint .223 cal. OK maybe it is a want !!! But I feel I really need one. :P

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#78 gillchaser

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 07:42 PM

Been three months since I've done a real cleaning on the 455 Lilja.
Pulled it apart this evening ready to get dirty, didn't happen. :huh:/>
Disassembled everything and was surprised by the lack of GSR.
I fire about 150 to 250 rounds a week, through the Lilja, so
that means I've shot about 3500 rounds since the last real cleaning.
Face of the bolt had a trace of oil and a smudge of carbon,
but nothing that a single q-tip coudn't remove on one pass.
Extractors had some dust but were still basically clean.
The only real grime I found was was on the feed ramp,
and that was all bullet lube. Bore was just about immaculate
even though all I do is pull a couple of dry patches through
at the end of a shooting session. Appears that the tight fit
of the match chamber prevents almost all blowback and so
eliminates any real buildup in the receiver. Very nice. ^_^/>

That's what I love about a bolt action , easy to maintain , easy to clean . Kirby
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#79 Walt

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 07:04 AM

OK, Got the new Lilja bull barrel mounted on the 455 and out to the range yesterday. Like I noted before mine just slipped in no problems other then a whole lot of sanding for the stock. Finally got it free floated and so off to the range. Weather wasn't what I would have liked 31 when we started shooting and wasn't warming up any too quick. I think with a little more fiddling like finding the right spot on the rest for the rifle and warmer weather it will shoot better then my first outing. I only shot two targets with it ,one in custom class and one in unlimited. Scores ran 236/8X and 235/5X. That gives me a starting point now. Will see how she does this spring.

Do I think it was worth it? YES

Walt
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#80 gillchaser

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 07:55 AM

Nice shooting Walt . Were you using the Lapua Center-X ? You guys are making it difficult for me to not order me a Lilja . If I did decide to get one , then I'd have to decide which one to get , Varmint tapered or strait . Decisions ! Kirby
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#81 Patrick N

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 08:39 AM

Walt, I think those USBR scores are pretty darn good considering the temperature. I'm looking forward to seeing what it does when it warms up.
Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by trying to make it tougher for sober people to own cars.

#82 Walt

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 11:30 AM

Nice shooting Walt . Were you using the Lapua Center-X ? You guys are making it difficult for me to not order me a Lilja . If I did decide to get one , then I'd have to decide which one to get , Varmint tapered or strait . Decisions ! Kirby

Thanks guy's. Yes that was with the Lapua Center-X. I used my sporter Savage for the first target "sporter division" and shot a 228-3X which surprised me because I was using CCI-SV for that. That stuff shoots really good for what it is.
Walt
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#83 jaia

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 05:53 PM

I've been able to improve my skills by shooting with the CZ 455 American and Lilja 22lr,
so I decided to upgrade my CZ 455 Varmint with a Lilja 17 hmr barrel.
As a result the 8-32x44 Mueller I had on the American is now being used
for 200 yard shooting on the 455 Varmint. That left me with a need for another
dedicated target scope. After looking through a variety of decent scopes,
I settled on the Weaver T24 as a best fit to my needs. The crosshairs and dot
on the T24 are finer than those on the Mueller. Which makes it easier to split
the 0.10 inch diameter dot, when practicing on the 50 yard range.

Posted Image

It's a shame that my recent ammo purchases are unable to match the quality
of the Lilja barrels on my CZ's. Too many squibs showing up in the latest bricks.
Of my recent orders, the brand that's been shooting consistently, is a brick of RWS-R50 I obtained.
Not cheap, but if you want to shoot a Lilja to it's abilities, you have to spend the money on the ammo.

Edited by jaia, 23 July 2013 - 09:01 PM.

jaia...just another interested amateur

#84 CarolinaChuck

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Posted 17 August 2013 - 11:06 AM

jaia, and all,

Great thread and thanks for sharing. I just bought a 455 Varmint in .17 HMR and am going to go through a similar curve; I kinda got the same bug and this is the latest toy for the shop. At any rate, I thought I would share something with you (and all) as you, jaia, have come to pressure bedding in your ad hoc target rifle. I am 53 years old, and I too have heard the "free float" your barrel for accuracy from the time my first beer was popped.... But I digress, I ran across this rifle in a pawn shop back in 1986 and it became somewhat of a puzzle to unravel:

Posted Image

"Hey... Wait a minute, that's not a CZ 455."

And your right; it is a Win 52B custom target rifle in a prone stock. Over the years I still have no idea whom, or from where in the country it was put together. I do know that it started life as a barreled action sold through Al Freeland back in 1950. His shop records reflect the sale, but not to whom it was sold to; God, wasn't America once great!

For the record: it weighs in at over 13 pounds. It sports an Eric Johnson 5 star, 8 land, 28 inch .995 bull barrel. A speed lock was added to the bolt, and the trigger was made by Henry C. Wright under his patent #, 2126075, ser. # 39 C1. The only part that has not been molested in some way is the action receiver itself, unless you consider the single shot phenolic floor plate plugging the magazine well as being molested. I added the Redfield Olympic peep sights, and the barrel does have the mounts for an O'l school target scope. May someday I'll run across one.

What might interest you is the way the gent bedded the stock:

Posted Image

The action is held in by two screws, one down from the top at the rear (not seen), and the forward action screw seen about 4 inches in front of the trigger guard. The front of the barrel has a barrel band that pulls the barrel down on two adjustable pressure points (you can see these in the picture).

Here's the other side:

Posted Image

And a closer look at the bottom fore-end:

Posted Image

Note the barrel ring with a threaded stud hanging on the barrel:

Posted Image

And here is the bedding in the stock (or lack there of):

Posted Image

Only one small patch of some type of resin seen in the middle of the photo; the small tit (bump) lives in the forward mag well screw hole. The wood dowel seen is a repair I made to a blown out screw hole holding the trigger guard on. The rifle stock does not have any other bedding done, it lives torqued down to the wood; and quite well I might add.

Near as I can tell, the idea is so a shooter can make a slight pressure adjustment at the front in a diagonal direction so that a sight system can achieve dead reckoning on the x-ring. In other words, if your tearing the edge of the x-ring, but can't with 1/4 MOA adjustments on the sights get dead in the center, you can make a pressure change moving the point of impact in a direction other than just up or down.

How does it work?... I have no idea. With the peep sights I can make one ragged hole at 25 yards, and at 50 yards dime size is possible, but take a quarter with you.

When I first bought the rifle, me and the Joe's around the campfire (think beer cooler here), were perplexed at such little bedding in the stock, and the fact that a target rifle was not a free floated barrel. We were always under the assumption that is partly why one buys, or wants, a bull barrel. It is obviously much harder to turn a bull barrel into a tuning fork.

Over the years I have come to the conclusion that one can free float a barrel if one wants, but with a pressure bedded barrel and action it is much easier to achieve fantastic accuracy. I am happy to see you too have gotten there.

As per my CZ 455, I bought it with the SST. Done removed almost before the first round was shot; maybe a novel idea, and I could see one in a hunting rifle, but the trigger had to go. I put in a Timney that dropped right in; not as sweet as the Wright, buy does allow a shot to be made without any knowledge to the rifle. If you are still playing around with 3 1/2 pound pull triggers, do yourself a favor and get a target trigger. It greatly aids in eliminating the finger factor. The Timney was simple, and I didn't have to do another trigger job: it gets old re-engineering stuff form others because of scum-bag lawyers.

For now I am going to leave it as is to gain a baseline with one exception, I have the stiffer striker spring coming in the mail from J & P. In time it will get some form of bedding. It will probably see a Lija in .22LR in the future as it is in my nature to buy stuff like that. The first thing I would like to try is a simple dampener up in the front forearm of the Varmint stock: I am thinking just a thin piece of rubber. My fear is that, in .17 HMR, I won't be able to see any improvements being made without long distances. Then as you know other factors, like wind, can cause you to question your results. My guess is that I can see a CZ Varmint barrel in .22LR in my future before just tearing head long into a full blown rifle project.

One last thought, and I know many will come to this on their own in time. I bought the CZ 455 because of the action. Unless you go Anschutz, you can not buy a .22LR action anymore. The 455 is an affordable platform which in two minutes I can have just the action and bolt in my hand. The thing is a bloody tinkers' dream... and a solid action to boot. To be honest with you, I would have spent the money I paid for the rifle on just the action and bolt alone. Move over 10/22, there is a new Sheriff in town.

Again, thanks for the thread and your time posting. It is good see that somethings in this country have not changed over the years, accuracy being one of them. Oh, and by the way... you shoot just fine Mate; I don't want to stand down range of you.

On to the next Caper,
CarolinaChuck

Edited by CarolinaChuck, 17 August 2013 - 11:08 AM.


#85 jaia

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Posted 17 August 2013 - 03:21 PM

Thanks for the information and pics of the 52B, Chuck.
Always interesting to see other solutions to barrel play.

my CZ 455, I bought it with the SST. Done removed almost before the first round was shot


Why? I was impressed by the feel of the 453 set trigger that I tried.
3.5 lbs normal pull, scary sweet 10 ounces using the set.
I'd be interested in taking over ownership of that set trigger you removed,
flip me a pm... :huh:

Edited by jaia, 17 August 2013 - 03:23 PM.

jaia...just another interested amateur

#86 CarolinaChuck

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Posted 17 August 2013 - 06:06 PM

For what it is worth, and because I like to let information flow (and you asked), I am big time spoiled on a target trigger. If I could have one in any and all firearms, I would have one. Kind of like eatn' tater chips; the bag is gone and all your left with is the mess on the front of your shirt.

Really, it is impossible to obtain perfection; where as excellence is an endeavor well worth pursuing. And I am bloody tired. Some things I shoot well, actually most things, but some I don't. But all in all, good trigger control is a must. Take a .45 auto 1911 Marine Corps issue; it does not fit my hand and I'll spit rounds everywhere but backwards. When I take a Bic cigarette lighter and put it in-between my hand and the pistol grip, I can shoot bloody hell out of holy water with one. It is all about trigger control and maintaining sight alignment. Don't get me wrong, there are a few other things in there when it comes to good marksmanship, but getting a round down range out of the barrel without the firearm knowing it is marksmanship 101. The first and last thing the weapon knows is the textile touch of your fingers; and your trigger finger is digit #1 in the ball game.

I bring up the .45 because for a lot of shooters would just leave a 1911 to a bunch of old gummers and opt for a Glock, or pick their latest fancy... But I got what was issued; and chose wasn't one of them. As a troop, I didn't have to qualify with one, butttt that just wouldn't be me. You take your training and what you have learned, and you figure it out. I didn't do it for the Corps, I did for me; and the fact I got to shot...

On a side note, I would probably leave the 1911 to the trash heap of history myself if it weren't for something so beloved by my fellow Marines. One hard hitting piece of hardware; and in a pinch you can pistol whip the snot out of somebody with it.

Personally, I would rather tickle a target style single stage trigger any day, and twice on Sunday. It is just my way; it might not work for everybody, but is my way. If you want the bloody thing I see no reason why not to let you, of all people, play with it... Should make for a few good posts and maybe a new thread. The bloody thing would be sweet as you know where in an American CZ 455 for hunting. I see little need for it but as a museum piece sitting right next to the flint lock rifles.

Just got word my twin brother passed away between these two posts-don't anybody go there, no one gets out of here alive. Yea, I feeling kinda low, but shooting is something he and I did with all our friends all our lives. Left to me and our younger sister now; God has seen to the rest of em, as he will with us. I feel I could not have been left with a finer day to get the news then to be here with folks talking about firearms on this rainy day here in the Carolinas.

With a heavy heart today; On to the next Caper,
CarolinaChuck

#87 jaia

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 06:02 PM

Another rimfire forum is running a 30 shot, 6 bullseye target comparison.

Not so much for bragging rights, but to see which rifles are actually capable of sub-moa results

at 50, 100 and 200 yards. Been some impressive results from some very talented shooters.

Shooting must be done using a bipod or sandbag, no adjustable bench rests.

Too bad my abilities don't match those of my 455 Lilja's. :blush:  ^_^

 

sh6shot100.jpg

 

Groups 1 through 5 are typical of this mornings targets. Very inconsisitent results

even though shooting conditions were very good. Variable winds, overcast, temps in the upper 70's.

100 yards shooting the 455 Lilja and Weaver T-24 scope off a Harris bipod using Wolf ME.

The target shown is the last 30 round target shot of the morning and group 6 is the last 5 shots taken.

The difference? I got so frustrated I pulled the bipod off and dropped the rifle into my low tech test rest.

Same rifle, same scope, same conditions, same ammo....the rifle shoots great when I'm NOT doing my part!

 

I'm like a geek with a Ferrari. I may own it, but I can barely keep it on the road. :P


jaia...just another interested amateur

#88 gillchaser

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 10:38 PM

Have you tried grabbing the firearm and squeezing it tight into your shoulder while you squeeze the trigger ? The rifle may respond to being held tight . Kirby
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#89 jaia

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 10:55 AM

It's the bipod. Too much movement due to the design.

Harris S-BR 6-9 bipod works well for varmint control in the field

but was not intended for bench shooting. Looking through the scope

touch the bipod leg and the image jumps. Not a good sign.

Same rifle from a solid rest or off an F-class bipod brings accuracy back to moa or less.

I was able to try a Sinclair this weekend at 50 yards. No bounce, no jump.


jaia...just another interested amateur

#90 gillchaser

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 04:51 PM

Yep , bipods are great in the field , but for precision work , a heavy bench vise or even some sandbags would be best . Kirby
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#91 jaia

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Posted 16 February 2014 - 06:45 PM

Finished and tested the last upgrade and I'm going to consider this project done.

Wasn't a cheap project but it did make me appreciate what it takes to produce an accurate rimfire.

Started out with a CZ 455 American Combo. $475

Lilja barrel $400

Weaver T24 target scope $400

Rifle Basix trigger $100

 

cz455.png

 

Pillaring, receiver bedding, barrel bedding, repeated trips out to the range for testing

to determine if an idea works or was a waste of time. Took a couple of years to figure it out.

Was it worth it? Absolutely. Could I have saved myself the time and purchased an Anschutz?

Sure, but then I wouldn't have learned anything. In order of importance here's how I rate

the improvements as they contributed to accuracy.

 

1) Pillaring

2) Receiver bedding

3) Barrel

4) Quality of ammunition

5) Barrel bedding

6) Trigger

 

Why rate the trigger's contribution so low?

The factory CZ 455 trigger was actually quite good.

The upgraded trigger was just the final step in testing.

Took a great sporter trigger and replaced it with a bench trigger.

The CZ trigger had a minimum pull of 34 ounces, with the Rifle Basix

I've had it adjusted down to where just touching it will fire the rifle.

A little too sensitive at that setting, 12 ounces seems to be where it feels right.

 

All that time and work to take a 1.5 moa rifle down to a 0.5 moa rifle.

You want accuracy? Accuracy costs both time and money.

 

As a fringe benefit, It did keep me out of trouble for the past 23 months. ^_^


Edited by jaia, 16 February 2014 - 07:20 PM.

jaia...just another interested amateur

#92 gillchaser

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Posted 16 February 2014 - 07:26 PM

Good looking and shooting rifle . I've enjoyed reading about the different accurizing tips and upgrades . Thanks for taking us along for the build . Kirby
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#93 Discoveror

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Posted 08 July 2014 - 07:38 AM

...don't forget to order the spacer and pin

 

for the mag well. Otherwise the 22lr single shot adapter or magazine won't fit.

Jaia, I'm unfamiliar with the above referenced mag well spacer and pin.  Would you elaborate? ... preferably with a photo?

 

... and THANKS - for the terrific project Thread ... and the idea (which is MIGHTY tempting ... for those of us who are more interested in exploring and learning than competing)   :P


Mike


#94 jaia

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Posted 08 July 2014 - 10:20 AM

If you purchase a CZ 455 in 22wmr or 17 hmr,

you don't get the spacer/adapter and pin.

Here's a pic of the mag well parts.

 

455-mag-well.jpg


Edited by jaia, 08 July 2014 - 10:22 AM.

jaia...just another interested amateur

#95 Discoveror

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Posted 08 July 2014 - 03:38 PM

If you purchase a CZ 455 in 22wmr or 17 hmr,

you don't get the spacer/adapter and pin.

Here's a pic of the mag well parts.

 

455-mag-well.jpg

 

 

oh, ok.  If one is concerned only with 22 LR, then it, apparently, isn't an issue.  

 

Thanks - for taking the trouble to post that, Jaia; I appreciate it.


Mike





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