Jump to content


Photo

Neal Waltz die, Paco Kelly ACU'RZR, D Rock tool


  • Please log in to reply
6 replies to this topic

#1 TOP PREDATOR

TOP PREDATOR

    Distinguished Shooter

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 293 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:N.E. Pennsylvania

Posted 17 July 2011 - 07:49 PM

before i get banned on RFC for getting in a pissing match with one of the rimfire snobs, i thought i'd better post / ask this on a real shooters' website for real information.

i've been thinking about investing in one or two of these tools.

if i have my info straight so far, and the most current prices / contact information i can find:

PACO KELLY'S ACU'RZR

the paco accurizer tool requires you to "whack it " on a hard surface with a mallet.
Paco Kelly
PO Box 1170
Cortaro, AZ 85652
http://www.gunblast.com/Paco2.htm
http://www.accurates...zr-bullet-tool/
http://www.leverguns...re/acurizer.htm
paco@gunblast.com
phase 4 seems to be an apples to apples comparison, 1 round at a time
THE PHASE 4 IS FOR THOSE FOLKS LIKE ME THAT HAVE A NUMBER OF 22 RIMFIRE FIREARMS... FOUR FORMING CHAMBERS .222 THRU .225 ALL RODS.$75
appears there are 3 types of bullet reforming rods - the accurizer, scorpion, and nastinose. just by looking at how each is operated, the paco seems odd that you'ld have to whack the tool / rod. seems there can be some variation depending on how differently you strike it.


NEAL WALTZ DIE

Neal Waltz
Email - waltz@sssnet.com
4105 HYATT N.W. MASSILLON, OH 44646
Phone - 1 330 837 4818
from what i found with searches, The cost of the dies is 125 plus fifteen dollars shipping. pictures here:http://www.rimfirece...=neal waltz die
it appears there are only 2 bullet shaping options. the "Eley head" and the hollowpoint. looks like a reloading die and uses a reloading press. the waltz die seems to have the most uniform pressure results, but you'ld need a reloading press.


D Rock bullet modification system

(contact information in links below)
$55.00 w/ 1 forming rod addtional rods are an extra $10.00, the tool and all 8 rods are $160.00 - (so to completely try all rods to see which works best, you can be in it for $160.00, but at least you do have 8 optional types of heads). instructions to use the D Rock http://www.rimfirece...ad.php?t=311814
http://www.rimfirece...do=ad&id=32854#
although not neccessary, D Rock suggests using an arbor press
http://www.use-enco....5&PMPXNO=948887 $25.95
arbor press adapter plate $30.00
$55.00 tool and 1 rod + $25.95 press, + $30.00 adapter plate = $110.95 plus S&H for 1 style rod ($160.00 + $25.95 press + $30.00 adapter plate = $215.95 plus S&H for the "complete" setup)
the D Rock tool seems to equal the waltz die if you get the arbor press and adapter plate, and even then seems complicated / time consuming putting in spacers, collets, moving the tool to the next station, etc. is it really as complicated as it looks? it can also be used without a press, but how do you know when equal pressure is applied from round to round?


there's alot posted here at RFC on each and how they shrink groups, but rarely any before and after group pictures or measurements posted. anyone have any befores and afters to share?

anyone have 1 of each or 2 of 3 to compare apples to apples?

if so, does anyone have the current prices on each?

does the cost of the dies justify buying cheaper ammo and the time spent processing a brick to just buying better ammo?
"a craftsman can't realize his full potential, without finding the potential of the tools he uses...."

#2 Komitadjie

Komitadjie

    Legendary Shooter

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 528 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Wenatchee, WA
  • Interests:Shooting in all forms
    Photography
    Woodcrafting
    Gunsmithing

Posted 18 July 2011 - 11:29 AM

I personally haven't seen much difference in my group sizes, at least nothing that I can attribute directly to the tool and not to my own day-to-day variation in skill, luck, and condition reading. If you read carefully, you'll see that D.Rock mentions specifically that his tool is not intended to improve accuracy, just to reshape the projectile's nose to whatever you want. Accuracy improvement may be a side-effect, depending on your particular rifle's bore.

With that said, it hasn't noticeably DECREASED the accuracy of the round either. I use it predominantly on CCI-SV and Wolf MT, my two rounds of choice for rifle shooting. In both cases, it lets me put a quite brutal HP on them that opens FAST (in a water jug, anyway) or EPS the tip for cleaner holes in paper. The system is extremely consistent, I use a drill press to fill the shoes of a light arbour press, and the locking collar keeps the punch to the exact same depth, every time. The stacking/unstacking of the spacers and whatnot sounds complicated, but once you've done about three rounds you don't even think about it any more. Only takes a few seconds to shift the spacer and forming tool around to punch out the formed cartridge, and it ensures that the projectile is not loosened or the nose damaged in ejection.

Would you be interested in trying one out? I have DRock's tool, and the entire forming tool set for it. If you would like to try it out, I'd be willing to send it your way for you to play with for a while.

Edited by Komitadjie, 18 July 2011 - 11:31 AM.

Two loudest sounds in the world:

1 - A firing pin on a loaded chamber that's supposed to be empty.
2 - A firing pin on an empty chamber that's supposed to be loaded.

#3 TOP PREDATOR

TOP PREDATOR

    Distinguished Shooter

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 293 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:N.E. Pennsylvania

Posted 21 July 2011 - 06:16 PM

Would you be interested in trying one out? I have DRock's tool, and the entire forming tool set for it. If you would like to try it out, I'd be willing to send it your way for you to play with for a while.



WOW! that is a darn nice offer!

i think after looking at the paco and waltz a bit more and a few other replies / pictures of before and after groups, i'm going to concentrate on the paco or / and waltz. the DRock form what i gather from everyone (including DRock himself) claims no accuraccy improvements, but some wicked hunting rounds.

so although i do appreciate the offer with a big THANKS, i'm leaning toward the Paco and Waltz tools.
"a craftsman can't realize his full potential, without finding the potential of the tools he uses...."

#4 Komitadjie

Komitadjie

    Legendary Shooter

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 528 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Wenatchee, WA
  • Interests:Shooting in all forms
    Photography
    Woodcrafting
    Gunsmithing

Posted 21 July 2011 - 08:05 PM

That's correct. His tool performs the same re-sizing operations as the others, but since NOBODY has been able to conclusively prove an accuracy improvement based on reswaging with all rifles and all ammos, he doesn't claim anything.

Keep us posted on how it goes, though! I'm definitely interested in hearing how they work for you. The Waltz tool would be my next choice, I just have a mental issue with an uncontrolled blow onto a round, and trying to repeat it with thousandths precision from cartridge to cartridge.
Two loudest sounds in the world:

1 - A firing pin on a loaded chamber that's supposed to be empty.
2 - A firing pin on an empty chamber that's supposed to be loaded.

#5 TOP PREDATOR

TOP PREDATOR

    Distinguished Shooter

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 293 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:N.E. Pennsylvania

Posted 29 July 2011 - 06:25 PM

well, a fine gentleman from another site had offered to send me his paco tool, he didn't even want shipping although i offered several times! i just got the tool today, and also today spent 7 hours "disposing" of most of my cheap ammo stragglers.

all i have left in "cheap bulk type" ammo is CCI blazers, which actually shoot quite well anyhow.

so anyway, the blazers are weight sorted, so i'll take 1 round from each weight lot and mix them in the magazine to give and objective and true mix. i'll do a 50 and 100 yard control group.

the paco tool came with three different rods for three different point types, i'll run the three different styles at both 50 and 100 yards.

the tool also forms bullets to .223 and .224 diameters, will also do groups for the different diameters.

i like the idea of using the die / press combo the Waltz provides as i believe it will give better consistant formings, but who knows, the paco method may also do the trick.

stand by for a range report soon...
"a craftsman can't realize his full potential, without finding the potential of the tools he uses...."

#6 solo mkb

solo mkb

    Tinhorn

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 4 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Indianapolis
  • Interests:Firearms, military, aviation, automobiles, culinary, spirits, gardening, outdoors, sports, many others.

Posted 03 August 2011 - 09:27 PM

well, a fine gentleman from another site had offered to send me his paco tool, he didn't even want shipping although i offered several times! i just got the tool today, and also today spent 7 hours "disposing" of most of my cheap ammo stragglers.

all i have left in "cheap bulk type" ammo is CCI blazers, which actually shoot quite well anyhow.

so anyway, the blazers are weight sorted, so i'll take 1 round from each weight lot and mix them in the magazine to give and objective and true mix. i'll do a 50 and 100 yard control group.

the paco tool came with three different rods for three different point types, i'll run the three different styles at both 50 and 100 yards.

the tool also forms bullets to .223 and .224 diameters, will also do groups for the different diameters.

i like the idea of using the die / press combo the Waltz provides as i believe it will give better consistant formings, but who knows, the paco method may also do the trick.

stand by for a range report soon...


I posted this under another topic but thought it would go here as well.
I have had a Paco Kelly Acu'rzr for about 2yrs. I purchased it specifically for enlarging factory hollow points, and use them for pest control at close range(inside 25yrds). The results are impressive. Opossums and Raccoons

#7 Louie.M

Louie.M

    Sharp Shooter

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 37 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Fishing, Shooting , Camping , Beer & Women ( :

    NRA Life Member , CRPA Life Member , BRRC Life Member , Americana 1800 Adventure Club : Junior Match Director
  • Anti Spam Check:739

Posted 03 March 2014 - 02:31 AM

I know this is an " OLD " thread.. But I just found an updated " Test Review ", which I thought was very interesting. 

 

D Rock bullet modification system

http://www.rrdvegas....t-modifier.html






0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users