Jump to content


Photo

CCI Green Tag vs. CCI SV


  • Please log in to reply
23 replies to this topic

#1 22 skidoo

22 skidoo

    Distinguished Shooter

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 242 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Northeast Wisconsin
  • Interests:.22ing, grouse hunting, birding, grandkids, dog-walking.

Posted 21 June 2010 - 01:00 PM

I find that both of my .22 rifles, a CZ 452 American and a Savage MKII BV, shoot CCI Standard Velocity very well. Maximum spread of five-shot groups at 50 yards with SV is usually .5", plus or minus a little, almost as good as Wolf MT or SK+. So out of curiosity I tried a box of Green Tag to see if it would do better than its little brother. But no, I'm lucky if five shots will go into an inch with Green Tag, even though the bullet weights and velocitites of the two rounds are the same. I note that SV's lube is somewhat liquid and greasy, while the Green Tags seem to have a drier, waxier feel. Could that be it? I shot long strings of the Green Tag -- 50 rounds in each rifle, but grouping didn't improve significantly. It's no biggie, just interesting and further proof that .22s will do as they please. Fortunately I only bought the one box of Green Tag.

#2 Wirenut1212

Wirenut1212

    Sharp Shooter

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 33 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Republic MO

Posted 21 June 2010 - 06:47 PM

"just interesting and further proof that .22s will do as they please"

^^^^^ More accurate words have never been spoken.

#3 LongPlay

LongPlay

    Legendary Shooter

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,028 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Deep East Texas
  • Interests:Hunting, Fishing, Chemistry

Posted 21 June 2010 - 07:05 PM

Yeah, Wirenutt... Skidoo does have a down home and accurate picture of our world!!

Skidoo.. you are right. These 22's will do as they want. But in years past the Green tag was the definite upgrade path from CCI Std Vel. But now, I have heard the same complaints about the green tags. Not much better than the std vel stuff. In the mid 80's I used to compete with the Green Tags. Now, it is no better than regular bulk ammo from what I see...

#4 22 skidoo

22 skidoo

    Distinguished Shooter

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 242 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Northeast Wisconsin
  • Interests:.22ing, grouse hunting, birding, grandkids, dog-walking.

Posted 21 June 2010 - 09:12 PM

Yeah, Wirenutt... Skidoo does have a down home and accurate picture of our world!!

Skidoo.. you are right. These 22's will do as they want. But in years past the Green tag was the definite upgrade path from CCI Std Vel. But now, I have heard the same complaints about the green tags. Not much better than the std vel stuff. In the mid 80's I used to compete with the Green Tags. Now, it is no better than regular bulk ammo from what I see...


Yeah, so it would appear and it's too bad. It would be nice to use SV for practice and Green Tag for competition -- both US made. Back in the '60's I shot some NRA bullseye pistol, and for the .22 we all used Remington Standard Velocity and never thought of shooting anything else; it seemed to work well for everybody, in a variety of High Standards, Colts and S&W's. But no more. For the centerfires we all used to handload .38 wadcutters and .45 SWC's for a nickel apiece. Those days are gone, too. It's hell to get old.

#5 Pdwight

Pdwight

    Administrator

  • Root Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,450 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:North Alabama
  • Interests:CMP Rimfire Sporter, Karate, Iaido, Aircraft and most anything that reflects skill and talent.

Posted 21 June 2010 - 09:29 PM

I have tried Green tag many times over the years and I have never had any luck with it. I find it to be inconsistent and over priced. I really don't like "dumping" on a product in a public post but the truth is the truth.

Dwight


A hundred years from now it will not matter what my bank account was, the sort of house I lived in, or the kind of car I drove. But the world may be different, because I was important in the life of a child.

for Zach, Everett, and Lilly

#6 Carl

Carl

    RFS Benefactor

  • Consultant / Mentor
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,434 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:South Central Kansas
  • Interests:Remington collector "wanna-be".
    .

Posted 22 June 2010 - 03:30 AM

I have tried Green tag many times over the years and I have never had any luck with it. I find it to be inconsistent and over priced. I really don't like "dumping" on a product in a public post but the truth is the truth.

Dwight


Same experience here... never found a rifle Green Tag would shoot in any better than most high velocity rounds and not as good as most standard velocities. Very disappointing for a company that makes other good ammos.
“The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to


restrain the people; it is an instrument for the


people to restrain the government-lest it come to


dominate our lives and interests"


Patrick Henry

#7 qtztwn

qtztwn

    Distinguished Shooter

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 142 posts
  • Anti Spam Check:739

Posted 22 June 2010 - 01:39 PM

Charles Petty in his article in March-April 2010 issue of Rifle magazine using a Winchester 52 found CCI Green tag to be much better than CCI standard velocity. That being said, he may have used older ammunition so his results may not apply to current production.

While Saeed on his web site accuratereloading.com, tests three varieties of CCI-SV, he does not report any results for CCI green tag! Of the three varieties, that in the plastic boxes seemed to be the best.

#8 Willie

Willie

    Legendary Shooter

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 517 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:north AL
  • Interests:Likes fine old 22,s benchrest and all other matches i am able to shoot. I like hunting and fishing to.camping.

Posted 22 June 2010 - 01:44 PM

Ibeleve it is the same ammo except for the box :D (WILLIE)

#9 qtztwn

qtztwn

    Distinguished Shooter

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 142 posts
  • Anti Spam Check:739

Posted 22 June 2010 - 01:57 PM

If Willie is correct, then all these measured differences that have been reported must simply be variation in the production lot being used!

#10 Pdwight

Pdwight

    Administrator

  • Root Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,450 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:North Alabama
  • Interests:CMP Rimfire Sporter, Karate, Iaido, Aircraft and most anything that reflects skill and talent.

Posted 22 June 2010 - 02:01 PM

If Willie is correct, then all these measured differences that have been reported must simply be variation in the production lot being used!


I wonder how many different manufacturing differences there really are in most of these.....I think they pick the cream of the crop in Q.C. and let the rest fall into a cheaper variety by name and sell them.
A hundred years from now it will not matter what my bank account was, the sort of house I lived in, or the kind of car I drove. But the world may be different, because I was important in the life of a child.

for Zach, Everett, and Lilly

#11 Stray Round

Stray Round

    Distinguished Shooter

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 276 posts

Posted 22 June 2010 - 05:59 PM

I've always thought that Green Tag was just a particular lot of ammo that met a specific accuracy standard. I know I've read this about other ammo companies and thier different grades/names of ammo.


For instance CCI for a time had a high vel ammo labled Silhouette and it was from selected lots of thier garden variety high speed. Federal's Auto match is supposedly selected lots of Lightnening 510.

Now this confuses me because the last CCI std vel that I shot was much better than the Green Tag I tried several years ago.

#12 LongPlay

LongPlay

    Legendary Shooter

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,028 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Deep East Texas
  • Interests:Hunting, Fishing, Chemistry

Posted 22 June 2010 - 07:22 PM

I have not really tried any green tag stuff since the mid 80's. Back then, I did seem to have better results with it over regular stuff. Now, from the few rounds I have shot that my nephew had, I dont really think there is any difference other than possibly one lot being better than another... But I only had like less than 10 rounds as I remember...

That is too bad, because it would be a super way for CCI to grab hold of a fairly good market slice. I know a lot of folks that would like to shoot American made ammo, and I do think, based on Blazer results, that CCI could make ammo to rival the Lapua Center X and Eley Black box variety.

Not too sure about how much market is out there... but if Wolf MT/Wolf ME/SK std plus/Lapua Center X and Eley higher grades are staying in business and making a profit. So there must be room for an American maker to come in and slice and dice the market and get a pretty big share... I know a lot of folks would love to be competing with American made ammo, IF and ONLY IF it was truly competitive.....

Edited by LongPlay, 22 June 2010 - 07:26 PM.


#13 Carl

Carl

    RFS Benefactor

  • Consultant / Mentor
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,434 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:South Central Kansas
  • Interests:Remington collector "wanna-be".
    .

Posted 22 June 2010 - 09:06 PM

Last time I shot Green Tag was at a match when I realized I was almost out of whatever it was I had been shooting. A member that has a shop/indoor range in Wichita sold me a box of Green Tag. I shot it after re-zeroing, but it didn't do well. Later I compared what was left to some Standard Velocity and the GT didn't shoot as good. Don't even remember which rifle that was in.
“The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to


restrain the people; it is an instrument for the


people to restrain the government-lest it come to


dominate our lives and interests"


Patrick Henry

#14 Stray Round

Stray Round

    Distinguished Shooter

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 276 posts

Posted 22 June 2010 - 09:06 PM

I would have liked to seen Federal continue the two grades of ammo they geared up for the Olympics. I never tried the top of the line stuff but had some of the lower grade and it shot fantastic.

I shot one group of the stuff in a CZ Scout with a 4x Bushnell at 50yds and it measured .28". Probably one of those fluke groups that are unusually tight but a good fluke none the less.

#15 22 skidoo

22 skidoo

    Distinguished Shooter

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 242 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Northeast Wisconsin
  • Interests:.22ing, grouse hunting, birding, grandkids, dog-walking.

Posted 22 June 2010 - 09:41 PM

I wonder how much Green Tag they sell. It's got to work well for somebody, or it wouldn't be on the market

#16 22 skidoo

22 skidoo

    Distinguished Shooter

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 242 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Northeast Wisconsin
  • Interests:.22ing, grouse hunting, birding, grandkids, dog-walking.

Posted 22 September 2010 - 02:56 PM

Yeah, Wirenutt... Skidoo does have a down home and accurate picture of our world!!

Skidoo.. you are right. These 22's will do as they want. But in years past the Green tag was the definite upgrade path from CCI Std Vel. But now, I have heard the same complaints about the green tags. Not much better than the std vel stuff. In the mid 80's I used to compete with the Green Tags. Now, it is no better than regular bulk ammo from what I see...

Much, much later: I was doing some work in a psychology rat lab once and saw a sign on the wall: "Under the most carefully controlled scietific conditions, animals will do as they d*** well please." Also .22s.

#17 LongPlay

LongPlay

    Legendary Shooter

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,028 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Deep East Texas
  • Interests:Hunting, Fishing, Chemistry

Posted 22 September 2010 - 04:10 PM

Skidoo,

I just got 3 bricks of Aguila ammo dropped on my porch late last week. 2 bricks of the 40gr. std (subsonic) cheap stuff, and 1 brick of the Aguila American Eagle Rifle Match in the black and gold box. I see this offered at about $30 a brick for the rifle match stuff.

If shooting SK or Wolf or Lapua stuff, it will take 25 to 30 rounds to replace the slick lube from the good stuff with the wax the Aguila uses, but after that, It is really pretty good stuff in my Remington and my Ruger 10/22 . I would say plenty good enough for squirrel fodder.... and the cheaper stuff, the blue and yellow boxed Agiula subsonic comes in a hollow point also as a 38 grain bullet. All the blue and yellow had groups about 3/4" to 7/8" at 50 yards, but did not seem to be any more prone to fliers than the SK stuff, and with that big of a group, I actually do not recall any outside this bigger group area.

Just a choice you may not have tried yet.

This is the best price I found so far on the rifle match.... http://www.cheaperth...m/AMM059-5.html

And for about the same price Midway has the 38 gr hollow point. non target grade.. http://www.midwayusa...ctNumber=386774

As for suppliers, I like Midway as their shipping is as fast as it is possible to ship ammo.
I have also had good dealings with Cheaperthandirt.

#18 chance_of_rain

chance_of_rain

    Legendary Shooter

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,230 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Washington State
  • Interests:1911's, Harley rides w/ my better half, shooting sports of all types, and plinking with the kids.

Posted 22 September 2010 - 07:27 PM

LP, how does the Target Rifle compare to the Super Extra?

Chance...
Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security would deserve neither and lose both. -Ben Franklin

#19 LongPlay

LongPlay

    Legendary Shooter

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,028 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Deep East Texas
  • Interests:Hunting, Fishing, Chemistry

Posted 22 September 2010 - 09:16 PM

Chance, It actually sounds like higher speed first of all. It also shoots a fair bit more accurate and tighter groups. The SE shoots pretty good at around 3/4" to 7/8" at 50 yds out of my Rem 541S and also my Ruger. (Both of these shoot 3/8" @50 with this super lot of SK+) And then the Rifle Match shoots at around 1/2" to maybe an occasional 5/8" out of the Remington 541S and Ruger. The rifle match and the SE do take some time to season in. That waxy finish is very different from the light grease on the SK+.

I think the $30 / Brick for the Rifle Match is a good buy for practice ammo, and would work fine for small game. I am not a big fan of the hollow point ammo for hunting, as I am a head shot only shooter, and a solid does all that needs to be done on squirrels when the 40 grains go through the head....

In fact, I have been doing some yard maintenance this last week, as the squirrels have decided to make an operational offensive on my office with bombing the roof with hard green pine cones and since Saturday, big white oak acorns. drives me crazy as I am trying to concentrate on doing some engineering.... So they got to test the skills of me and Mr. Ruger.... let's just say, I have over half a dozen slow learners in the freezer as of today....

#20 Neil Casper

Neil Casper

    Sharp Shooter

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 54 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Erie County, Ohio
  • Interests:Firearms, reloading, football, cats, dogs, and Rock & Roll!

Posted 30 September 2010 - 11:51 PM

CCI Mini Group shoots much better in both my Savage and Marlin target rifles. In the Savage Mini Group at 50 yards was 18 mm for five shots cener to center. The Green Tag went out to 22 mm center to center. The difference is much wider in my Marlin.
neil
Been there, done that. Now I'm tired and I'm going home.

#21 LongPlay

LongPlay

    Legendary Shooter

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,028 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Deep East Texas
  • Interests:Hunting, Fishing, Chemistry

Posted 01 October 2010 - 09:04 AM

CCI Mini Group shoots much better in both my Savage and Marlin target rifles. In the Savage Mini Group at 50 yards was 18 mm for five shots cener to center. The Green Tag went out to 22 mm center to center. The difference is much wider in my Marlin.


Neil, I am not sure I know what "Mini Group" ammo is. I have heard of the standard velocity, and the Green Tag stuff. And of course the Mini Mag stuff. Most all shoots OK in some of my rifles. But the term Mini Group is new to me. Any pics of the box?

#22 Patrick N

Patrick N

    I Need A Range Day!

  • Resident PC Advisor
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,367 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Northern IL
  • Interests:Rimfire BR, Smallbore Silhouette, Smallbore 4P, & CMP Rimfire Sporter...and enjoying all of it!

Posted 01 October 2010 - 12:24 PM

Neil, I am not sure I know what "Mini Group" ammo is. I have heard of the standard velocity, and the Green Tag stuff. And of course the Mini Mag stuff. Most all shoots OK in some of my rifles. But the term Mini Group is new to me. Any pics of the box?


LP,

"Mini-Group" was CCI's trade name for their standard velocity ammo.


CCI Mini-Group 1970s_R.jpg
Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by trying to make it tougher for sober people to own cars.

#23 Neil Casper

Neil Casper

    Sharp Shooter

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 54 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Erie County, Ohio
  • Interests:Firearms, reloading, football, cats, dogs, and Rock & Roll!

Posted 04 October 2010 - 11:18 AM

The box on the left is the Mini Group.

Posted Image

Fuzzy Mini Group 50 yard group from the Savage Mark II TR

Posted Image

Next time I come across some CCI Standard Velocity I'll get some and give it a try. I still need to order some Wolf and SK target ammo.

Darn, this is fun!
neil
Been there, done that. Now I'm tired and I'm going home.

#24 LongPlay

LongPlay

    Legendary Shooter

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,028 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Deep East Texas
  • Interests:Hunting, Fishing, Chemistry

Posted 04 October 2010 - 12:05 PM

Ok, got to doing a bit of looking with google, and found the same thing. the 0032 product number is in some sites called mini group. And on some boxes as well it seems.
I do not use much of this, as it does not seem any better than some of the other SV ammo I have. Aguila SV is about as good. And about the same price.

Neil, yeah,,, this is a lot of fun. It comes in fairly inexpensive compared to centerfire pistol or centerfire rifle, and because it does, allows us to shoot as much as we feel like we want to. Also, the pop of a rimfire is less of a bother to anyone in earshot than a centerfire weapon would be.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users