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#1 Danny Creasy

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Posted 20 June 2010 - 12:07 PM

A friend is shopping for a .22 semi-auto pistol to use in our local 25/25 Match (there is an entire 25/25 forum on here if you want more information on the match). He does not want to spring for a S&W 41 or used HiStd. His goal is to stay under $400. I have told him my thoughts several times but he is really torn. I will not state my meanderings again as not to influence the reader. What would you recommend and why? He has looked at and handled Buckmarks, Ruger Mk I, II, & IIIs, S&W 22As, and Beretta Neos so far. Help!

#2 Walt

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Posted 20 June 2010 - 12:58 PM

I really like my Buckmark and once you do the spring flip the trigger is great, cheapest trigger job around. :)

I would recommend it for the price and reliability.

Walt
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#3 Stray Round

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Posted 20 June 2010 - 01:08 PM

Oh, you've really stirred it up with this question.

I have four Ruger MKIIs that I've gathered somehow over the years and have been pleased with the design enough not to cash in for the S&W 41 or other top target handgun.

First they are tough as an anvil. Two of mine have been shot very heavily in the 25+ years I've had them. You just don't need a box of parts or an armorour to keep them going. Parts breakage is not a problem and if you do need to replace something parts are very inexpensive and can be had from either Ruger or Brownell's easily.

Mine have been extremely reliable and shoot both standard vel and HS without changing anything unlike some designs. I only clean one when I feel extremely guilty and that is usually after something like 5k rounds. Taking one down for a comeplete cleaning of everything is quite easy despite what some say.

Accuracy? I have a 3x scope on one and from a rest will shoot penny size or so groups with most cheap ammo which is good enough for me and as good as I can do. With open sights they will hit the 1/5 scale rifle chicken silhouette at 40m or the ram at 100 if you do everything right.

Cons are the sights and trigger. Some have better triggers than others but can be polished up easily to be at least acceptable. The adjustable sights have coarse adjustments at 3/4" or so at 25yds. Bo-Mar and Volquartsan sights might be an improvement to consider down the road.

Peronally I'd think that a Ruger MkII (or MkIII) with the 6 & 7/8" bbl would be the best for any type of shooting game and something that a person wouldn't grow out of or have the feeling it was holding them back.

#4 Pearyw

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Posted 20 June 2010 - 04:18 PM

I would recommend a 5 1/2" heavy barrel Ruger MKII. I like them better than the MKIII. I have a MK I and a 22/45 MKII as well with the 5 1/2" barrels. I think the the rgular MKII is the better of these.

#5 Pdwight

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Posted 20 June 2010 - 04:51 PM

I would recommend a 5 1/2" heavy barrel Ruger MKII. I like them better than the MKIII. I have a MK I and a 22/45 MKII as well with the 5 1/2" barrels. I think the the rgular MKII is the better of these.


I'm not sure of the number but Andrew and I had this conversation Thursday evening. The S&W 22 Semiauto pistol that Richard has is just one notch below a 41 S&W and for less than $400....this is what I would buy.

Posted Image


or a Browning Buckmark Posted Image
A hundred years from now it will not matter what my bank account was, the sort of house I lived in, or the kind of car I drove. But the world may be different, because I was important in the life of a child.

for Zach, Everett, and Lilly

#6 Pdwight

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Posted 20 June 2010 - 04:53 PM

I'm not sure of the number but Andrew and I had this conversation Thursday evening. The S&W 22 Semiauto pistol that Richard has is just one notch below a 41 S&W and for less than $400....this is what I would buy.

Posted Image


or a Browning Buckmark Posted Image


PS these have very nice open sights
A hundred years from now it will not matter what my bank account was, the sort of house I lived in, or the kind of car I drove. But the world may be different, because I was important in the life of a child.

for Zach, Everett, and Lilly

#7 chance_of_rain

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Posted 20 June 2010 - 05:08 PM

I got a chance to shoot a Buckmark a while back and I was very impressed with the way it shot. The Kimber Gods will probably frown on me for this, but if I would have shot that Buckmark before buying my Kimber I would be owning two Buckmarks now.
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#8 cheap22

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Posted 20 June 2010 - 05:59 PM

My MKII shoots better than I can and does it with cheap Ammo and the parts to do about any thing to it later are easley found

Ulus

#9 Danny Creasy

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Posted 20 June 2010 - 09:28 PM

So far, that's two for the Ruger, 2.5 for the Buckmark, and one for the SmithLite.

#10 Technical Director

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Posted 20 June 2010 - 09:59 PM

I have a Ruger Standard that I bought new back in the 1970's. Love everything about it including how well it shoots even with the "Standard" sights.

#11 Patrick N

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Posted 21 June 2010 - 12:41 AM

I think it's a toss up between the Ruger, Browing, & Smith & Wesson. I've never shot the Beretta Neos but I don't think I'd be interested based upon what I've seen and read. I have a Ruger MK II Gov't and I know how well it performs so I'd have to say they're a great choice for the money. Mine seems accurate enough, it's a solid and reliable pistol and the fact that parts and upgrades are readily available is definately an added bonus. I'll have to agree with Stray Round that they're really fairly easy to take apart and put back together once you figure it out but, I will say that they're kind of a non-traditional design and not as simple as some other models when it comes to field stripping.
The thing is, with all of these great things that the Ruger has going for it, I've never really been too keen on the appearance of the gun......especially the standard/tapered barrel models. I'm not sure what it is but they just don't appeal to me.

Personally, I think that if I was currently in the market for a lower priced target pistol I would be looking real hard at the Browning Buckmark models. I've shot a few and handled many since we sold Browning (as well as Ruger) and they shoot very nicely. I like the traditional design of the Buckmark and it feels better in my hand than the Rugers. So I think the Buckmark is also a great choice for the money.

It'll be interesting to hear what your friend ends up buying and why. Keep us posted!
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#12 Walt

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Posted 21 June 2010 - 07:54 AM

. I've never shot the Beretta Neos .


I have the Beretta Neos and when it comes to field stripping it wins hands down. It is put together like my Hi-Standard a simple turn of a hand screw ( no tools involved ) and its apart. The trigger is a little heavy but it is a excellent starter hand gun for the money. I haven't really shot it that much as right after I got it I also picked up my Buckmark and loaned the Neos to my brother-in-law to use until he got his buckmark but the model he is looking for has been on back order. I also have the carbine adaptor for the Neos which is fairly easy to slap on.

Walt
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#13 Ol'shaky

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Posted 21 June 2010 - 03:21 PM

Thanks, guys, for all the great information. I am the friend "SheffieldShooter" was referring to. I currently have a Ruger MK II Standard, but I was looking for something with adjustable sights, a decent trigger pull and easier to clean. (I am a bit OCD about cleaning and only feel comfortable if I thoroughly disassemble the little Chinese puzzle after each shooting.) I really love the take-down of the S&W 22A and the Neos, but have not fired either. If someone has a 22A, I would like to hear what you think of it. I've read a lot of "pros" but also some "cons" online. I like my other Smiths (Mod.59,Mod.66 and two Mod.10s)and I'm glad Dwight thought the 22A might be an option. I've shot my brother-in-law's Buckmark Camper and loved it, too. Unfortunately, there seems to be some sort of availability problem right now and I can't even order one. One dealer even called Browning direct for me - no luck. The only one I can find locally is a 7.25" "Lite" model (it feels great but is REALLY light...Only one mag... and scope rail is extra.) A S&W 22A is HALF the price of this Buckmark and comes with an integral weaver rail. The rail and sights are permanently attached to the barrel. In the Buckmark, the rear sight comes off with the top strap, which must be removed to clean the firing pin and recoil spring assembly. Some commenters say this means you need to re-zero after each disassembly. I like the feel and trigger of the Buckmark (and the manual apparently no longer recommends removing the slide and strap for cleaning) (?)
Comments from 22A or Buckmark owners would be appreciated. Thanks!

#14 Pdwight

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Posted 21 June 2010 - 04:03 PM

A Very Big RFS Welcome Shaky , our very own Richard E has the smith I pictured..... I'm sure he could be coerced into bringing it out for you to shoot.

Dwight
A hundred years from now it will not matter what my bank account was, the sort of house I lived in, or the kind of car I drove. But the world may be different, because I was important in the life of a child.

for Zach, Everett, and Lilly

#15 Danny Creasy

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Posted 21 June 2010 - 07:39 PM

Welcome to RFS Ol Shaky.

Richard has been attending the CMP Sporter matches. Maybe we could get him to bring the Smith this Saturday. Tony has a Neos but I think it is scoped.

Guys, I suggested that Monty simply game up the 25/25 with a 10/22 Charger (sans bipod) and compromise between a rifle and a pistol scope with a scout scope and develop a rifle like hold. Heck, it sounds like so much fun that I might try it myself.

Bring that left elbow in tight on the chest and rest your nose on your right thumb. Cool huh.

I can't believe there is not a pic on here of that crazy hold I use with the scoped single six. You gotta be creative sometimes. :rolleyes:

#16 Danny Creasy

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Posted 30 July 2010 - 05:17 AM

Search ended. Ol'Shaky found a nice blued slabside Buchmark this week. Congrats Monty. See you on the second Saturday morning in August :o . The Rams are huge from 25 yards and easy to hit and the skeeters have nigh on disappeared.

#17 RustyNut

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 07:25 AM

My wife bought me a Buckmark a few years ago. I shot it and wasn't real impressed so it sat in the safe. One day I brought it with to the range and shot a couple boxes to break it in.
Now it's my favorite pistol to take shooting. I get 2.5" - 3" groups at 25yds with the stock sights.
There is something about the Ruger MkII target I had I didn't like, I didn't really care for the grip.
The Ruger is a nice pistol but after owning both I would get the Buckmark.

#18 Carl

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 10:41 AM

Although most Ruger rifles suck, I have nothing against the Ruger Marks. Have never owned one, but have shot a few and although I can't hit a darn thing with a handgun, they shot as good as anything and never saw one malfunction.... I know, not much help am I? Posted Image
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#19 Tigerbeetle

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 08:12 AM

You have to love the Buck Marks even if you have a Ruger or 2 or 3 as well. I am glad Ol'Shakey found a slab side. I have campers, but I prefer the look of the slabs. If he hadn't found what he was looking for, I was going to recommend finding a Challenger I or II. I have a Challenger II that I absolutely love to shoot. It feels better than my campers, Medalist, Ruger standard or Single Six. TB

#20 Tigerbeetle

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Posted 10 November 2010 - 12:18 PM

Thanks, guys, for all the great information. I am the friend "SheffieldShooter" was referring to. I currently have a Ruger MK II Standard, but I was looking for something with adjustable sights, a decent trigger pull and easier to clean. (I am a bit OCD about cleaning and only feel comfortable if I thoroughly disassemble the little Chinese puzzle after each shooting.) I really love the take-down of the S&W 22A and the Neos, but have not fired either. If someone has a 22A, I would like to hear what you think of it. I've read a lot of "pros" but also some "cons" online. I like my other Smiths (Mod.59,Mod.66 and two Mod.10s)and I'm glad Dwight thought the 22A might be an option. I've shot my brother-in-law's Buckmark Camper and loved it, too. Unfortunately, there seems to be some sort of availability problem right now and I can't even order one. One dealer even called Browning direct for me - no luck. The only one I can find locally is a 7.25" "Lite" model (it feels great but is REALLY light...Only one mag... and scope rail is extra.) A S&W 22A is HALF the price of this Buckmark and comes with an integral weaver rail. The rail and sights are permanently attached to the barrel. In the Buckmark, the rear sight comes off with the top strap, which must be removed to clean the firing pin and recoil spring assembly. Some commenters say this means you need to re-zero after each disassembly. I like the feel and trigger of the Buckmark (and the manual apparently no longer recommends removing the slide and strap for cleaning) (?)
Comments from 22A or Buckmark owners would be appreciated. Thanks!


Visit Chim's site http://chim.embarqspace.com/# Get Rusty22's take down tool (search on RimFireCentral.com on the Browning forum; and any thoughts or fears of ease of take down for the Buck Mark goes away. I love my old ruger standard for what it is. A great old pistol I shot for many years before buying a Buck Mark (or 2). It languishes in the gun closet now more than it should. The folks that have the Ruger Mark IIs will say that after (anywhere from an hour to a lifetime) they finally get to where they can take them down and get them back together. The Ruger Standard is still by far the easier of all the Rugers. I had the buck mark down and back together in no time the first day I had it. I really believe you already feel the buck mark is the best.




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