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Savage Springfield model 87S


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#1 Tigerbeetle

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Posted 20 October 2008 - 09:44 AM

I picked one of these up a couple months ago. Shot it a few times and and was rather surprised how slow the cyclic action is. It has two little gill slits on the left side of the action. I have seen pictures of some with 4 or 5 slots. Anyway, I am trying to get a little background on the rifle. I have heard various references to Savage, then Stevens, and also of Spingfield being a store brand. It is now also an independent manufacturer now of firearms, but I don't believe that includes .22s.

It may have been the edge of the die for the the number 8, but it almost looks like a light strike of a number "1" in front of the 8. I have finally decided - maybe wrongly - that it is a Savage/Springfield Model 87S; rather than a Savage/Springfield Model 187S"

Any of you gurus out there help me on this? Sure would appreciate it.
TB

#2 Carl

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Posted 20 October 2008 - 02:30 PM

Not going to call myself a guru on this by a long shot, but what I can find on these rifles is that I think these are basically a Savage Model 6. Savage bought J. Stevens in about 1920 to 22. All of these models, the Savage Model 6, the Stevens 85 (clip version) and 87 (tubular mag) and the Springfield 850 and probably several other models (including a Savage/Springfield 87) over the years were made at the Stevens factory in Chicopee Falls, Mass.

I remember my brother-in law, when he married my sis in 1958 and lived with us until he finished college, had a Stevens model 87 and we went squirrel hunting a couple of times. I don't know if he still has it or not.... seems like he and one or more of his brothers owned it together. The Stevens model had 4 or 5 "gills" and the forend tip was painted black.

Don't know if that adds anything that you don't already know, but that's about my limited knowledge of them.


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#3 kaintuck

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Posted 30 November 2008 - 06:39 AM

QUOTE(Tigerbeetle @ Oct 20 2008, 09:44 AM) View Post

I picked one of these up a couple months ago. Shot it a few times and and was rather surprised how slow the cyclic action is. It has two little gill slits on the left side of the action. I have seen pictures of some with 4 or 5 slots. Anyway, I am trying to get a little background on the rifle. I have heard various references to Savage, then Stevens, and also of Spingfield being a store brand. It is now also an independent manufacturer now of firearms, but I don't believe that includes .22s.

It may have been the edge of the die for the the number 8, but it almost looks like a light strike of a number "1" in front of the 8. I have finally decided - maybe wrongly - that it is a Savage/Springfield Model 87S; rather than a Savage/Springfield Model 187S"

Any of you gurus out there help me on this? Sure would appreciate it.
TB


i would think it is a 187s model, due to the 2 slots....more modern version of the older 87's. i would think the reciever has a sloped rear to it dosen't it?...the 87's ALL had a knob ended reciever.
newer version:
IPB Image

older version:
IPB Image

savage bought stevens way early in the last century (1920's?) and springfield was a logo stamped on stevens rifles inside the stevens plant....the black "horn tip" was put on a many stock models making the rifle a "big game" type of look.....AKA Frank Buck era..........here's a bunch of info i have gathered:



#4 Tigerbeetle

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Posted 01 December 2008 - 10:59 AM

Thanks for the information. It is a model 187 w/2 gills. I got a hand lens out and looked at the model number and it definitely is "187." Clickety-clack is a super nick name for it because that is what it sounds like.
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#5 Leech

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Posted 03 January 2009 - 02:54 PM

I thought some of you guys might be interested in a thread over at http://parallaxscuri...pic/6562?page=1
regarding the 87M. We are looking for more owners who would be willing to submit their butt plate number and help us find more history on this unique rifle. I have also posted photos of mine at http://alliswd45.goo.../springfield87m

Hope to see you on The .22 Caliber Rimfire Military Training Rifle Forum.

Leech

#6 kibard

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Posted 13 July 2009 - 04:01 PM

I thought some of you guys might be interested in a thread over at <a href="http://parallaxscuri...ic/6562?page=1" target="_blank">http://parallaxscuri...6562?page=1</a>
regarding the 87M. We are looking for more owners who would be willing to submit their butt plate number and help us find more history on this unique rifle. I have also posted photos of mine at <a href="http://alliswd45.goo...springfield87m" target="_blank">http://alliswd45.goo...ingfield87m</a>

Hope to see you on <b>The .22 Caliber Rimfire Military Training Rifle Forum</b>.

Leech



#7 kibard

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Posted 13 July 2009 - 04:17 PM

Hi, Leech I have a rifle just like yours, Springfield 87M I took it to the gunshow in Phoenix this weekend(7/11/09) wanting to learn more about it, and its value.
Only one person had even seen one before. Many people wanted to buy it, but I didnt know what would be a fair price. Its in 98% or better condition with its original strap. The number under the buttplate is # 7 . The only issue is its missing its forward most band where you would load it.
I would greatly appreciate any info you might be willing to share regarding what I should sell it for.
Respectfully,
Kibard

#8 Windustsearch

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Posted 10 September 2009 - 05:33 PM

I have a Savage model 6, not sure which alpha designation it is though. It has the scope mount holes and the receiver notch and an inlet in the stock for a peep sight. It is stamped Savage model 6, Utica NY, the patent number, 22 long rifle smokeless greased only, and an 18 inside of a circle (all on the barrel). The stock has a plastic coating and black plastic butt plate, it is checkered on the grip. I don't think the rear sight is original though, as it can't go low enough to sight the rifle in (made for a thinner barrel I think).

I have been looking unsuccessfully for a scope mount for it. I was planning on getting an old vintage Weaver scope to put on it.

#9 Lifespeed

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Posted 23 November 2009 - 01:14 PM

Are there any Savage model 6 experts on this forum? I know they are not, shall we say, the most sophisticated autoloader design. But it is Grandpa's old rifle, and as much as I would like to pitch it on mechanical principles alone, I cannot for sentimental reasons. I have a model 6E.

So I would like to get the darn thing to fire semi-auto. I took it apart, cleaned it and oiled it, but the problem remains: The bolt goes forward with the next round not fully elevated to be inline with the chamber. The rear of the round (.22LR of course) is still hanging down towards the magazine tube and gets shoved forward in this position, jamming it into the chamber at an angle.

A couple thoughts as to why this might be happening:

1) The 'lifter' is worn on top and is not lifting the round up high enough

2) This ancient rifle uses a primitive 'blow-back' action that relies on the speed of the action being slowed to allow for the feed mechanism by a trigger 'catch'. The trigger is supposed to hold the bolt back until the trigger is released, slowing the action to allow the next round to be properly fed. Perhaps this isn't happening and the bolt is hitting the round before it is completely fed into the chamber.

I can buy a new lifter, as well as a magazine tube guide. It seems there are quite a few parts available. I don't want to go replacing parts unnecessarily. Any ideas on how I can diagnose the problem or verify which, if any, parts need replacing? Is there a way to verify the trigger-catch-bolt-slowing aspect of the action?

Edited by Lifespeed, 23 November 2009 - 01:15 PM.


#10 Mookie

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Posted 23 November 2009 - 11:19 PM

Nearly every single semi auto rimfire is a blowback.

What you have is a fairly common problem on this particular model of Savage. Yes, this rifle does cycle very slowly and you can keep the bolt from cycling completely by holding the trigger down, quite a nice feature actually.

As to the problem. Your problem is in a possible four areas that all will cause the same effect. The release housing, magazine guide, lifter and the lifter spring. All are connected. What happens is they can either wear of go soft. More than likely your feed lips, which also act as the ejector, have gotten worn or bent slightly. The second probability is the lifter spring has gone soft, this is the more likely of the two. You need to figure out which part is worn. I fixed mine by slowly cycling the action until I figured out which piece was out of alignment.

I wrote the Numrichs part number as well as the name.

Posted Image

Edited by Mookie, 23 November 2009 - 11:22 PM.


#11 Carl

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Posted 24 November 2009 - 11:42 AM

I like your picture and explanation Mookie. Looks like you have "been there and done that". I don't know of a single .22 rimfire semi-auto that is not "blowback"... there may be one somewhere, but I sure don't know of any.
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#12 Mookie

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Posted 24 November 2009 - 01:35 PM

I like your picture and explanation Mookie. Looks like you have "been there and done that". I don't know of a single .22 rimfire semi-auto that is not "blowback"... there may be one somewhere, but I sure don't know of any.

Yup, been there done that. Talk about a headache trying to track it down.

I am not positive but I believe that some of the 22 AR uppers are not blow back. I have heard of some others but I can't remember what they are called.

#13 Carl

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Posted 24 November 2009 - 01:59 PM

Yup, been there done that. Talk about a headache trying to track it down.

I am not positive but I believe that some of the 22 AR uppers are not blow back. I have heard of some others but I can't remember what they are called.


I didn't think a .22 rimfire would have enough gas pressure to unlock a bolt and cycle it, but I could be wrong. The 550 series of Remingtons are a delayed blowback, but still a blowback. These have the "recoiling chamber" that recoils immediately with a short, but is delayed with a Long or LR.
BTW, when I was with relatives in Iowa a few weeks ago and and talking about guns with my brother, my brother-in-law's old Stevens semi-auto came up... he still has it. My brother remembers hunting with it when he was a kid.
“The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to


restrain the people; it is an instrument for the


people to restrain the government-lest it come to


dominate our lives and interests"


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#14 zoom650

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Posted 19 December 2009 - 12:23 PM

Hello everyone,

I ran across this interesting thread and thought I'd add:

I own a Stevens Model 87H by Savage Arms Corporation. Also stamped on the barrel is Savage Arms Corporation, Westfield, Mass USA. There are two numbers stamped under the buttplate, 28 and 16653.

I found it under the Christmas tree 12-25-1963. It worked the last time I fired it, sometime around 1969.

Mike
Macon, GA

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#15 tsmgguy

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Posted 04 May 2010 - 08:10 AM

I'm the guy who bought the following:

http://v2.gunbroker....?Item=164038942

Had no idea that the price would go so high, but I'm very pleased with the rifle. It's in truly excellent cindition, with nearly all of its original finish. There are a very few, very minor dings and compressions in its magnificent walnut stock, which has never been sanded or oiled. The internals and bore are pristine, though it could use (and will get) a good cleaning.

The gun has no markings whatever that I can find, except caliber markings on the barrel under the upper hand guard. The magazine tube is of brass. All screws are present and the slots are in excellent condition.

As with everything that I've collected, there was no planning involved; acquistion was unpremeditated! Now, to learn all I can about the gun.

I only just noticed an interesting and unusual feature of the gun: the bolt stays back until the trigger is released. Don't know the practical advantage of this.

Anyway, any information that you can provide about this rifle will be much appreciated!

#16 Technical Director

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Posted 04 May 2010 - 10:27 AM

I only just noticed an interesting and unusual feature of the gun: the bolt stays back until the trigger is released. Don't know the practical advantage of this.

Anyway, any information that you can provide about this rifle will be much appreciated!


Hi tsmgguy,

Not sure what else I can add, but the "gills", you find described in the original patten, were to help with expelling both gas and debris (ie un-burnt powder) in order to keep that stuff from collecting in the breach area. Nice idea but makes for terrible shooting if you're left handed as the most of it comes out the right hand side.

My thoughts on the clicky-clanking; the bolt staying back until the trigger is released. There are many different ways to do the same thing and perhaps Savage/Stevens thought that they might become the new defacto standard for semiautomatic .22 actions. Also maybe this was their way of preventing this gun from becoming a full automatic stemming from an owner's perchance to tinker. So their design may have also been a safety feature.

I do like the ability to lock the bolt to simulate a single shoot. Nice feature when you're teaching a new shooter and don't want them to be just wailing away at the target.

I'll often get some interesting looks and questions at the range whenever I shoot my Stevens 87A with its clanking and bolt staying back until you release the trigger. Always makes for a great conversation piece.

Hope this helps, Technical Director

#17 crashcup Model 1

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Posted 11 November 2010 - 08:04 PM

Interesting picture of the solid stamped lifter above.
I have a Model 6 with a spring steel lifter. Has a similar shape but its made of spring steel.
I tried to replace it with a solid lifter but it didn't mesh with the bolt.
Probably before the patent was applied for in 1939.
Has anyone seen a spring steel lifter on a Model 6 before? I believe there aren't too many of this type around.
Comments:

Also on this gun, when it starts to wear, it goes into full auto mode. I just filed down the trigger support block where it marries to the barrel
and VIOLA, the problem goes away. Its a 1 time fix only, but a whole lot cheaper than having new plunger pins made by a machinist.P10104701.jpg

Edited by crashcup Model 1, 11 November 2010 - 08:12 PM.


#18 travlingman38

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Posted 22 November 2010 - 06:58 PM

I Have a model 6D- Deluxe that had the same problem,come to find out nothing was worn out at all, the problem was the long spring inside the magazine/ramrod i call it,spring was weak, stretched it out a bit,BAM,Problem solved :-)

Are there any Savage model 6 experts on this forum? I know they are not, shall we say, the most sophisticated autoloader design. But it is Grandpa's old rifle, and as much as I would like to pitch it on mechanical principles alone, I cannot for sentimental reasons. I have a model 6E.

So I would like to get the darn thing to fire semi-auto. I took it apart, cleaned it and oiled it, but the problem remains: The bolt goes forward with the next round not fully elevated to be inline with the chamber. The rear of the round (.22LR of course) is still hanging down towards the magazine tube and gets shoved forward in this position, jamming it into the chamber at an angle.

A couple thoughts as to why this might be happening:

1) The 'lifter' is worn on top and is not lifting the round up high enough

2) This ancient rifle uses a primitive 'blow-back' action that relies on the speed of the action being slowed to allow for the feed mechanism by a trigger 'catch'. The trigger is supposed to hold the bolt back until the trigger is released, slowing the action to allow the next round to be properly fed. Perhaps this isn't happening and the bolt is hitting the round before it is completely fed into the chamber.

I can buy a new lifter, as well as a magazine tube guide. It seems there are quite a few parts available. I don't want to go replacing parts unnecessarily. Any ideas on how I can diagnose the problem or verify which, if any, parts need replacing? Is there a way to verify the trigger-catch-bolt-slowing aspect of the action?


Edited by travlingman38, 22 November 2010 - 07:07 PM.


#19 Target-Ed

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 01:56 PM

I have the issue of "doubling" on my Savage 6 and "Burst Fire " troubles on my Model 7. What specific parts need to be changed out to alleviate this dangerous issue?

Ed




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