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Remington 513T


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#1 Rim Noob

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 09:30 AM

I have come across a 513T that I can bag for $320. It seems to be in good condition but is without sights-which doesn't bother me much because I have a box of sights looking for guns. Does this seem like a good deal? Any general opinions about the model?

#2 planeflyr

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 09:53 AM

YES!!! (If in good condition, of course)

Fine rifle. Purchased by the Army as a training rifle during WWII. (see Army TM 9-280)

"Correct" aperture sights are Redfield 75-RT rear micrometer sight and a ramped blade front sight. The front sight is easily interchanged with an insert type globe
front sight as the ramp is screwed into the barrel rather than dovetailed. Common front globe sights are Lyman 17 series and redfield 63 series. (Somehow a Redfield
Olympic looks out of place on this rifle.)

I use my 513T with a globe sight for rimfire sporter at my club (yeah, it's not legal but we shoot just for fun) and do as well or better than those using scopes. And I'm not
that good a shot!

Planeflyr
Corey

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Arguing with an elite liberal is like wrestling with a pig in the mud.  Both get dirty...  and the pig loves it.

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#3 Rim Noob

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 10:02 AM

YES!!! (If in good condition, of course)

Fine rifle. Purchased by the Army as a training rifle during WWII. (see Army TM 9-280)

"Correct" aperture sights are Redfield 75-RT rear micrometer sight and a ramped blade front sight. The front sight is easily interchanged with an insert type globe
front sight as the ramp is screwed into the barrel rather than dovetailed. Common front globe sights are Lyman 17 series and redfield 63 series. (Somehow a Redfield
Olympic looks out of place on this rifle.)

I use my 513T with a globe sight for rimfire sporter at my club (yeah, it's not legal but we shoot just for fun) and do as well or better than those using scopes. And I'm not
that good a shot!

Planeflyr
Corey


Here is the listing. I have had email conversation with the seller and he will do the deal for $320 shipping included.
http://www.gunsameri...arget_RIfle.htm

Wht do you think?

#4 Patrick N

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 10:50 AM

It's definitely seen some use but that's expected. The stock looks to be in good condition. The metal has seen better days but I don't see any rust or pitting. The grooved receiver and original mag are good things. My front site on my 1946 model was dovetailed and came with an old bead front sight when I bought well used years ago. It's likely the front site on mine wasn't original and I'm using a globe on it now. As far as I know, the commercial models came with a Redfield 68 globe mounted in a dovetail. According to Carl some came with a Lyman 17 in front as well as a Lyman target sight in the rear.

Some of these came with some really nice wood underneath the finish. Here's a couple pics of my refinished and slightly customized 513T.

Posted Image

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Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by trying to make it tougher for sober people to own cars.

#5 Carl

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 11:19 AM

I don't see any government cartouches on it, so it may be a civilan model, or had the stock replaced. Typically government models have had rougher use and/or have been through one or more arsenal rebuilds. For this reason, I would prefer a civilian version, but the government model has some appeal to military collectors... why, I'm not sure as many were not used by actual military units.
For that price, even without sights, it looks like a pretty good buy to me. Yes the Redfield was th correct sight, but some, I would imagine due to a shortage of Redfields, were equiped with Lymans. I have a civilian model made in 1967 that was new and unfired when I bought it and it has Lymans front and rear.A second one I bought at the same time and close on serial numbers, had Redfields... my son-in-law now has it.
“The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to


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people to restrain the government-lest it come to


dominate our lives and interests"


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#6 planeflyr

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 11:33 AM

Looks like this is not the government model as the government purchases were roll stamped "US Property" on the receiver ring and Remington roll stamped these as "Military Finish" on the barrel. Military finish was Parkerizing as opposed to blueing.

The barrel is a smaller diameter on the civilian model, but I'd need to research the difference. For what you're looking for it shouldn't make a matter.

The rifle already contains the rear sight mount for the Redfield 75 micrometer sights. This is good as the sights are more plentiful than the mounting block. Going over to a Lyman or other Redfield which mount directly to the receiver may require additional drilling and tapping.

I see the dovetail on the barrel. You can install a front globe with a dovetail as part of its housing or install a dovetail insert which will allow clamp on globe sights.

At $320 it is a good buy if the seller is being up front on the barrel, bolt, and furniture condition beyond what is shown in the photographs. Get it before it's gone.

Planeflyr
Corey


Carl,

I am one of those avid collectors of the government models. Their histories make them a fascinating bit of Americana.

Corey

Edited by planeflyr, 19 February 2013 - 11:36 AM.

"Making things fun is the only revenge you have against mortality"
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Those who do not remember the Pasta are condemned to Reheat it.
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Arguing with an elite liberal is like wrestling with a pig in the mud.  Both get dirty...  and the pig loves it.

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#7 Carl

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 12:18 PM

I'm not aware fo any difference in barrel diameter between government models and civilian. There may have been differences at different times during the production runs though. As for the "Military Finish", from what I have seen, this is also a time of production thing and the mIlitary finish was different from parkerization. Most (if not all) that are parkerized had it done during an arsenal rebuild and parkerizing uses a different process from what Remington termed "Military Finish". I have to leave for a funeral soon, but I'll try to mic my barrel later as I don't recall off hand what the diameter is.
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people to restrain the government-lest it come to


dominate our lives and interests"


Patrick Henry

#8 Rim Noob

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 12:24 PM

It's definitely seen some use but that's expected. The stock looks to be in good condition. The metal has seen better days but I don't see any rust or pitting. The grooved receiver and original mag are good things. My front site on my 1946 model was dovetailed and came with an old bead front sight when I bought well used years ago. It's likely the front site on mine wasn't original and I'm using a globe on it now. As far as I know, the commercial models came with a Redfield 68 globe mounted in a dovetail. According to Carl some came with a Lyman 17 in front as well as a Lyman target sight in the rear.

Some of these came with some really nice wood underneath the finish. Here's a couple pics of my refinished and slightly customized 513T.

Posted Image

Posted Image


:wub: :wub: :wub:

Well, thanks a lot Corey! I just went out for a long walk to consider my cash and domestic political staus (vis-a vis even more guns),and had committed myslf to passing on the 513. Then I look in here and you have posted this gun porno and now my resolve is shaken to near collapse. So, again, thanks a whole bunch :P

#9 planeflyr

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 12:55 PM

I'm not aware fo any difference in barrel diameter between government models and civilian. There may have been differences at different times during the production runs though. As for the "Military Finish", from what I have seen, this is also a time of production thing and the mIlitary finish was different from parkerization. Most (if not all) that are parkerized had it done during an arsenal rebuild and parkerizing uses a different process from what Remington termed "Military Finish". I have to leave for a funeral soon, but I'll try to mic my barrel later as I don't recall off hand what the diameter is.


You may be correct about the barrel diameter. I'll mic mine and we'll compare notes. The "Military Finish" sure looks and has the texture of Parkerizing. Arsenal rebuilds may have received a park'd finish different from Remington's original "Military Finish".

I'll try and post a couple of photos if I can find a good place to take them.

Planeflyr
Corey

"Making things fun is the only revenge you have against mortality"
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Those who do not remember the Pasta are condemned to Reheat it.
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Arguing with an elite liberal is like wrestling with a pig in the mud.  Both get dirty...  and the pig loves it.

-wish I knew who to attribute this quote to


#10 Patrick N

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 01:04 PM

They can shoot well too! These were shot at 50 yds

Posted Image

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These targets were shot a long time ago and I have to admit that we had an exceptional outing that day, conditions were perfect, etc.
Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by trying to make it tougher for sober people to own cars.

#11 Rim Noob

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 06:46 PM

Got to let this one go. Just too many guns and too few square inches of wall and dollars. Maybe next year when, by some miracle, the wall will grow along with the dollars. Oh well!

#12 Pdwight

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 11:00 AM

Its not too hard to find wall space, extra dollars can be tough in these times...... don't worry you will find another one in the future.
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#13 Rim Noob

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 09:45 AM

Its not too hard to find wall space, extra dollars can be tough in these times...... don't worry you will find another one in the future.



As it turned out I sold my Litschert scope to great fella in West Viginia and that generated just enough cash to let me justify trying to get this 513T. I have hit the old 'BUY' button but haven't got a response yet. Hope the gun is still there-the pictures in the posts above just pushed me over the edge.

#14 Carl

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 10:21 AM

Good luck!!! I think "bang for the buck", they are hard to beat. I have shot groups as small as 1.2(something)" at 100 yards with peep sights. One match I shot the 1.2**" and a 1.4**" (100 yards) and my son-in-law won the class shooting 2 groups in 1.2**" with his 513-T. My lowest group was the smallest of the day.
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#15 Rim Noob

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 11:11 AM

Good luck!!! I think "bang for the buck", they are hard to beat. I have shot groups as small as 1.2(something)" at 100 yards with peep sights. One match I shot the 1.2**" and a 1.4**" (100 yards) and my son-in-law won the class shooting 2 groups in 1.2**" with his 513-T. My lowest group was the smallest of the day.


Wow! Now I'm going to be completely bummed if it is gone already.

#16 Rim Noob

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 11:40 AM

Good luck!!! I think "bang for the buck", they are hard to beat. I have shot groups as small as 1.2(something)" at 100 yards with peep sights. One match I shot the 1.2**" and a 1.4**" (100 yards) and my son-in-law won the class shooting 2 groups in 1.2**" with his 513-T. My lowest group was the smallest of the day.


How would this stack up against a Win 75? Similar sort of accuracy? The two guns bear a remarkable resemblance to one another just judging from the pictures of the 513T that I have seen.

Edited by Rim Noob, 24 February 2013 - 11:40 AM.


#17 planeflyr

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 02:03 PM

How would this stack up against a Win 75? Similar sort of accuracy? The two guns bear a remarkable resemblance to one another just judging from the pictures of the 513T that I have seen.


Very similar accuracy - all other things being equal. That is to say that you have a heavy barrel Winchester 75. The Remington is slightly heavier at 8.2 lbs. vs 7.9 lbs for the Winchester. The Winchester soprts a 28.12 in. barrel to the Remington's 27.00 inch barrel, however the Remington's sight radius is 0.6 inches longer due to placement of sights.

Using similar sights, one should not be able to tell the differece in accuracy so long as both rifles are in similar condition action and barrel.

Planeflyr
Corey

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Those who do not remember the Pasta are condemned to Reheat it.
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Arguing with an elite liberal is like wrestling with a pig in the mud.  Both get dirty...  and the pig loves it.

-wish I knew who to attribute this quote to


#18 patriot

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 02:17 PM

If you are talking target model to target model, not the sporter, it is a silly question; get the Remington. :D Mine has a better trigger and is more accurate than the 75's.

I hope the proposed Oregon "compromise" won't require you to turn in the magazine.

Mark

Below is a link to a photo

http://rimfireshooti...3009#entry21534

#19 Randymac

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 02:48 PM

Here is a 5 shot 100yrd peep sight group from one of my 513



Posted Image


Posted Image

Edited by Randymac, 24 February 2013 - 02:51 PM.


#20 Rim Noob

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 03:23 PM

If you are talking target model to target model, not the sporter, it is a silly question; get the Remington. :D Mine has a better trigger and is more accurate than the 75's.

I hope the proposed Oregon "compromise" won't require you to turn in the magazine.

Mark

Below is a link to a photo

http://rimfireshooti...3009#entry21534


I already have the 75 so, thank God, I don't have to choose. Also, my 75 got its trigger massaged at the gunsmith's so it is very nice (by my totally ignorant standard anyhow). It has an original Winchester sight that sets the apeture disc well aft of the end of the bolt, so the sight radius might match the Remington-I don't know for sure.

#21 Rim Noob

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 03:38 PM

If you are talking target model to target model, not the sporter, it is a silly question; get the Remington. :D Mine has a better trigger and is more accurate than the 75's.

I hope the proposed Oregon "compromise" won't require you to turn in the magazine.

Mark

Below is a link to a photo

http://rimfireshooti...3009#entry21534


I think my single shot magazines are safe ;)

#22 Carl

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 05:51 PM

The Win. 75 Target and 513-T are contemporaries, just as are the Win. 52 and the Remington 37 on a higher level.
I have shot a 75 that belonged to a friend and I personally prefer the 513-T, but a lot of that is just being more familiar with it. My son-in-law shot in college and they had a choice of the 75 or 513-T. He said he prefered the Remington, but again it's personal preference.
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#23 Rim Noob

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 06:59 PM

The Win. 75 Target and 513-T are contemporaries, just as are the Win. 52 and the Remington 37 on a higher level.
I have shot a 75 that belonged to a friend and I personally prefer the 513-T, but a lot of that is just being more familiar with it. My son-in-law shot in college and they had a choice of the 75 or 513-T. He said he prefered the Remington, but again it's personal preference.


Well, with luck I can have both and am sure I will like both. So far though, the seller's responsiveness has been nil. But it is Sunday.

#24 Rim Noob

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 04:47 PM

How long should I give a seller to respond to emails before bailing out? I really have a pet peeve about non-responsive sellers-seems to me if they want to sell something they should at least reply when you tell them you are standing here with money for them.

#25 Ben Cartwright SASS

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Posted 20 July 2013 - 03:14 PM

Cory - I just bought a 513T US Property (XL Dec 42?) at the Five Rivers Auction in NH. It has the ramp front sight, You mentioned a Dovetail Insert, I don't want to cut the barrel, I am assuming that there is no dovetail under the front ramp, would the dove tail insert have the dovetail on a ramp that could be screwed onto the barrel in place of the ramp sight?

The metal is nice, although the stock was lightly sanded, you can still make out the cartouches a bit.

I want to add a globe front sight but don't want to permanently change the rifle.

Where do I get a dovetail insert?

#26 Carl

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Posted 20 July 2013 - 04:59 PM

Ben... I believe some had a dovetail slot under the ramp and some did not. Depends on when the government ordered them. There were several contracts thru the years. If it does not have one, I believe Brownell's have an adaptor.
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#27 Ben Cartwright SASS

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Posted 20 July 2013 - 06:20 PM

I just checked there is no dovetail under the ramp. I will check the Brownells website.

#28 planeflyr

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Posted 20 July 2013 - 08:07 PM

Ben,

I just took a look at mine since I have a globe front sight on it. There is no dovetail cut into the 0.815" diameter barrel. The front of the barrel is drilled and tapped for a "Lyman" type mount similar to how many globe front sights are mounted via a thumb screw. (Think also Unertl mounts to visualize what I'm referring to) The "dovetail" as it were, is longitudinal with the barrel as opposed to transverse across the barrel to which the globe sight slips over. You'll be looking for a Redfield #63 or similar globe sight to slide over this "dovetail". The hole spacing is approx 1.121"inches apart (That's eyeballing it with a caliper) which is the hole spacing matching that of the original ramp sight. Make sure the underside of the mount matches the radius of the barrel so there are no gaps either in the center (radius too small) or at the edges (radius too large). You may need a custom machinist or your gunsmith to make you one. There are a few of these guys out there.

Good luck and let us know how you make out.

Planeflyr
Corey

Edited by planeflyr, 20 July 2013 - 08:11 PM.

"Making things fun is the only revenge you have against mortality"
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Those who do not remember the Pasta are condemned to Reheat it.
-Mama Leone

 

Arguing with an elite liberal is like wrestling with a pig in the mud.  Both get dirty...  and the pig loves it.

-wish I knew who to attribute this quote to





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