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My first pillaring project...


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#1 Technical Director

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Posted 18 September 2010 - 08:28 PM

After having some pillaring work and more done on one of my rifles, and reading all of the good things this does, I'm going to get really brave and try to do this type of work myself on my 10/22. There's a relly nice sticky on one of the other forums, and I was able to gather all of the parts and such today. I don't have a drill press but one of my brother in laws does., so that work's scheduled for this coming Monday. I've already rough trimmed the metal/pillar part, which is a brass plumping adapter ie threaded on one end barbed on the other end. Already have some JB Weld on hand too.

I chose my 10/22 because the stock bedding is sorta ok, but IMO could use some improvement when it comes to shooting from a bench. I've already done a lot of work on the hammer and the sear with very good results. I was going have a bit more work done on the bolt but I wanna get this bedding work and test it first. If all goes well, I should have the bedding work done in a couple of days after Monday and still be able to go shooting at the range on Thursday. Tomarrow, I'll bag up all of the tools and parts that I'll need to take over to my BIL's.

I'm really looking forward to this project as I've pretty much done everything else that I can think of to try and make this rifle shoot just a little bit better. After completing the pillar work, I'll go and shoot it for some documentation ie shot targets. Next item of work might be some bedding under the back couple of inches under the barrel. However, I'll first see if my usual plastic washers quasi floating barrel technique will suffice. Maybe some bedding work on the vertical sides around the very front part of the receiver adjacent to the take down bolt might be in order. Well I'll do it one step at a time which will also let me see how each thing I do helps or not.

#2 chance_of_rain

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Posted 18 September 2010 - 08:43 PM

TD, If possible take lots of pictures of this procedure. I would kinda like to learn this and know amount of reading works for me near as well as a picture. I tried to take pictures of the YoDave installation but they were so blurry I gave up. There I go again getting off subject. :) Good luck.
Chance...
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#3 patriot

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Posted 18 September 2010 - 10:07 PM

TD,
Welcome to the brotherhood of stockers. :tumbs:

Mark

Tip - use the existing stock action bolt holes as a guide for setting the angle(s) of the drill press table using a bit just large enough to fit.

#4 LongPlay

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Posted 18 September 2010 - 11:06 PM

TD. You should have fun with the stock work. Take a look at the rear of the action while you are working on that pillar job. It is quite likely you will find it floating after the pillar work. If so, there is a two part epoxy stick that you knead together that will make a pretty good simple support on the very back edge of that squared off receiver. Just be careful and be sure to get the release agent on it well. And I would set it into place and let it get hardened with the trigger group OUT. It is too easy to squeeze that epoxy stuff into the crease in between the trigger group and the receiver. (Can you hear the experience there??? :rolleyes: )

I can tell you... there are some of these Rugers that will really shoot.... I shot a 219 in USBR with the 50yd green monster targets last month.. and it should have been better but I really choked a few shots..

I am with Chance on the need for pics and the trials and difficulties.

#5 Technical Director

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Posted 21 September 2010 - 10:29 AM

So I've completed the work yesterday and am heading to the range in a couple of days to see what torque setting will work the best. Per my earlier post, I found a really good post on another forum with very clear and easy to follow directions, pictures included. Click on this LINK and just follow along like I did. I was able to find the same brass fitting at the local OSH store nearby. Everything went very smoothly and I can't stress how important it is to measure, measure and measure again before you cut/trim. Did buy an extra brass fitting just in case but now it's available for my next pillaring project, which might be my Remington 511X. I used JB Weld as the adhesive between the pillar and the wooden stock. I left the top of the pillar .020" proud above that bottom part of the stock. It's working and makes everything set just a bit more level in the stock. This will also provide me with some prefabbed "bedding" room should I decide to do some bedding work at a later date. I used some shoe polish as a release agent on anything that I didn't want to get the JB Weld stuck on.

Here's some pictures of my efforts:

* Ruger stock top view before drilling:
Posted Image

* Ruger stock bottom view before drilling:
Posted Image

* Brass plumbing piece used for pillar:
Posted Image

* Machined pillar side view:
Posted Image

* Machined pillar top view:
Posted Image

* Stock drilled for pillar:
Posted Image

* Machined pillar sitting in drilled stock:
Posted Image

* Ruger stock top view completed pillaring project:
Posted Image

* Ruger stock bottom view completed pillaring project:
Posted Image

As for the torque setting, I had determined that 30"/# gave me the best results with the un-modified stock. When I go see what will work for the pillared stock I will experiment with a range of 25 to 40"/#. As the receiver is aluminum, I don't want to go higher than 40"/#. With my 581LH being a steel receiver, I use 50"/# on the front bolt and 40"/# on the back (smaller diameter) bolt. Based upon what is recommend on the FAT Wrench instructions, about roughly 60 to 75% of the recommended setting for a steel item is recommended for an aluminum item, I will do the same for my Ruger 10/22.

So it's now been 15 hours since I did the JB Weld work and I going to go and reassemble my Ruger 10/22. Currently at 100 yards I'm averaging 1.25" groups on a very good day, generally it's more like 2" groups on a regular day. I'll let you folks know how it shoots in a couple of days.

#6 LongPlay

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Posted 21 September 2010 - 11:04 AM

Nice looking work there TD. Should really improve your rifle. Torque settings will not be much of an issue anymore. With metal to metal, once you have fit-up and the two parts are mated, that should not change with torque.

Check for wobble muzzle to rear action after you have it in, and lightly snug, before torquing it down. If there is any, you may need to get a pad under the barrel and a JB Weld pad put into the rear where the action square back sits.

Shoot it with some good ammo, so you have a decent test of your work. It looks great to me.
:tumbs:

#7 chance_of_rain

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Posted 21 September 2010 - 11:25 AM

Thanks for the excelent pictures TD. Looks good. :tumbs:

Chance...
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#8 Technical Director

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Posted 21 September 2010 - 03:33 PM

Thanks for the kind words guys, it was lot of fun and the work went quicker than I expected. I've got the back of the receiver already snug against the stock via a 1mil thick piece of e-tape. I'm still wrestling with that spot on the top back end of the trigger groups and how it touches/relates to the stock at that point. Still thinking about how to address this spot with out it looking too ghetto.

LP, you're right about the torque thingy. I was visuallizing (and doing all of that engineering type thinking) how this step up locks down and have decided to just go with 35"/#. I think that should work for this diameter screw unless someone has had a better experience with a different setting here for a pillared Ruger 10/22.

#9 LongPlay

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Posted 21 September 2010 - 03:42 PM

That should work really well, TD. It looks very clean and well done.

The Etape thing should be all that is needed.

Plus, you can also use your special washers a couple of inches in front of the barrel clamp, if the totally free floated system fails to give you the tight groups you are looking for. It sure did for me.

By the way.... what barrel are you using? Is it the factory one? Some of those are really good barrels. I have two take off's here and one of them is a very good one.

#10 Technical Director

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Posted 21 September 2010 - 03:53 PM

By the way.... what barrel are you using? Is it the factory one? Some of those are really good barrels. I have two take off's here and one of them is a very good one.


I'm using the original factory barrel. Bought my 10/22 back in the mid 1980's and everything always seemed to work pretty good. So other than a little bedding work and a little hammer and bolt work; a tuffer buffer;, everything else is as when I bought it. Bought the rifle way back then; shot it a little bit (not even a bricks worth); and then needed to set it and my enjoyment with shooting aside until just a couple of years ago. So essentially I have a "new" 10/22 that I'm currently shooting Posted Image.

Edited by Technical Director, 21 September 2010 - 03:54 PM.


#11 patriot

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Posted 21 September 2010 - 04:22 PM

Very nice work. Let us know how well it shoots.
Mark

#12 Technical Director

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Posted 23 September 2010 - 09:49 PM

Went to the range today to test things out. There was a slight wind at times (5 to 10 mph) and of course it was the hard one to read as it was back to front (not side to side). Had to re-zero the 3-9x scope of course; once that was done; and making sure I stuck my tongue out the correct side of my face; I was able to do the attached target.

Ruger DIY pillar project; 5 shots at 100 yards:
Posted Image

This was with bulk ammo, everyones favorite:
Posted Image

I've got a couple more bricks of this stuff that I trying to use up first before I start on what I have that I consider a little more gooder.

I need to fine tune the barrel bedding a little bit more, but overall, I'm very pleased with these results Posted Image .

Edited by Technical Director, 23 September 2010 - 09:50 PM.


#13 chance_of_rain

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Posted 24 September 2010 - 07:20 AM

Good looking target TD, looks like your first bedding job was a success. Allright allready quit being such a chicken and try the good stuff. :D You can always go back to use the other stuff. :rolleyes: Or do as I have, and save the bulk for the kids, friends, relatives, (my father inlaw) they go home thinking what an amazing shot you are, just don't tell them you took a dose of the good stuff.

Happy Shooting!!! Chance...
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#14 LongPlay

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Posted 24 September 2010 - 04:34 PM

TD, If you shot that target with Rem Golden bullets, you should have taken the afternoon and bought lottery tickets....

That is excellent work with run of the mill ammo. To be sure, I would like to see the "gooder" stuff results. I am a betting man(hence the lottery poke at you) and I would be betting on a 1" group or 3 or 4 during the outing.... SK Std Plus lots I have gotten lately ( since July ) have been the full equal of my Lapua Center X. Not all SK+ is like that, but the last two orders ( 5 bricks ) have been winners. I did a rapid fire ( about 11 min ) run on the USBR 50 yd targets during last month's Match in Lufkin with my 10/22 using the SK and scored a respectable 219/250 with it. And as I said it was done almost rapid fire, due to wind conditions. When it would lay down. I would burn and churn. It is some good ammo.

I got it from Champions Shooters.... around $45 a brick.

#15 Technical Director

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Posted 24 September 2010 - 10:55 PM

Thanks for the complements and lead on the ammo LongPlay. Ok, ok....now that I've got the receiver work completed on a couple of my rifles, I am now going to put that one box of guuud stuff ammo in my range bag. It's a box of RWS Target Grade and when I go to the range and if the conditions are awe inspiring, I'll send some of those down range Posted Image.

Wife and I went to dinner and coffee afterwards minus the kids tonight. Went to work on the 10/22 just now and I finished the fine tuning on the Ruger 10/22 as the pillar was intentionally set a bit proud but now is where I want it to be after some hand grinding. The Remington 581 got the stick on palm swell removed; tried it but made the overall grip a little too large and I wasn't able to properly grip the rifle with my trigger hand. Usually I shoot a minimum of four targets per rifle (5-shot groups). So both the 10/22 and 581 will be possible candidates for the RWS Target Grade ammo. I actually enjoy the challenge of shooting bulk ammo at long range. I got use to shooting what was readily and cost effectively ( I know, less good shots...bigger smile) when I was playing paintball on a team basis. All the different teams I was on were heavily sponsered and so you had to use your sponsers products. Really wasn't that bad, because generally our prices were less than wholesale and sometimes free. Therefore I learned how to set up my equipment to be able to use whatever I was given (ammo-wise) and did my best to always have my mad skills at their best. Playing both five and ten man format, my forte was either as traffic director; or the sacrifical goat; or the special ops type of player (which scared the crap out of a lot of other teams). Anyway I seriously digress.

As mentioned earlier, my next pilalring project will probably be my 511X with it's 6-24x Tasco. I'm debating whether to do the original sporterized stock or go get a used 513T stock and pillar that. Here's a couple of targets I shot yesterday ie 5-shot each at 100 yards, with bulk ammo. I'm finally getting the hang of the two stage trigger with the softer spring I recently installed:

511X, 5 shots at 100 yards, no. 1:
Posted Image

511X 5 shots at 100 yards, no.2
Posted Image

Hopefully the pillaring will help me get rid of those pesky fliers Posted Image. Haven't bought a lottery ticket in years, probably should have bought some on the way home yesterday...

Edited by Technical Director, 24 September 2010 - 10:59 PM.


#16 LongPlay

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Posted 24 September 2010 - 11:14 PM

TD, try to not reduce your targets quite so much. See if you can get them at the 60k to 90k size if possible.

I cannot see holes in the two targets above well at all.
On the top target I see a single hole at 8 o'clock on the black square line. If there are 5 there, you need to get more of that ammo!!!

Same on the bottom one. I see only one hole in the black square top left. Looks like a double hole, but I do not see any others.

LP>..

#17 Technical Director

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Posted 24 September 2010 - 11:29 PM

Ok...I'm still learning on how to post decent pictures Posted Image. Anyway, regarding the first picture, look at the black grid line just to the left of the lower left hand side black square and you'll see the other three shots touching and on top of each other; the other two shoots are one in the yellow at eight o'clock touching the red bullseye and the other one is at ten o'clock just to the left of the black grid line you were speaking of. Regarding the second picture, the upper left hand black block with the three shots; the other two shots are just barely to the right of that black block. I need to experinment and try to get better pictures of my targets. Right now I'm scanning them on my printer, but maybe I'll try taking a picture of them instead so I can get better definition of the results. Thanks Posted Image.


Arrrgh, I'll try to get some better versions of these two targets ASAP Posted Image.

Ok, hope this helps and is easier to see:
* first target:
Posted Image
inside the black block is actually three shots.

*second target:
Posted Image

Now if I can only get rid of those fliers....they're not due to a cold bore, it's more me and the rifle bedding.

Edited by Technical Director, 24 September 2010 - 11:54 PM.


#18 Technical Director

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Posted 25 September 2010 - 08:50 AM

TD. You should have fun with the stock work. Take a look at the rear of the action while you are working on that pillar job. It is quite likely you will find it floating after the pillar work. If so, there is a two part epoxy stick that you knead together that will make a pretty good simple support on the very back edge of that squared off receiver. Just be careful and be sure to get the release agent on it well. And I would set it into place and let it get hardened with the trigger group OUT. It is too easy to squeeze that epoxy stuff into the crease in between the trigger group and the receiver. (Can you hear the experience there??? Posted Image )



I like the idea of using the two part epoxy stick stuff as it seems like it would better stay put versus running all over the place like JB Weld. LP, I've got a spot or two that I think I'll try it there.

Thanks, Technical Director

#19 LongPlay

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Posted 25 September 2010 - 09:58 AM

I like the idea of using the two part epoxy stick stuff as it seems like it would better stay put versus running all over the place like JB Weld. LP, I've got a spot or two that I think I'll try it there.

Thanks, Technical Director

Thanks TD... my poor old eyes can handle those pics!! :blush:

Looks to me like you have potential for a super shooter there. The rear bedding thing is a little bit tricky, in that when you set your rifle into the bedding, you should remove the trigger group to be safe, and block off that back inch of receiver with clay putty. And when you set the rifle down into the curing epoxy putty, don't push too hard, you would like it
to be about 3 to 5 thousandths proud of normal so it forces the stock to rest right there, and not float. I do this by using the previously installed pillar and action screw with very light torque, and a LARGE rubber band around the barrel near the end of the fore arm to pull that part down slightly against the teeter totter you will have with the single action screw as the fulcrum. THEN, a wood workers ratchet clamp on the rear of the action to pull the action down, against the rubber band trying to lift it up, until you get that rear action just exactly where you want it.

That putty epoxy stuff is pretty good stuff. Drys hard as concrete. In fact it feels like mortar to the touch after it is hardened. I had serious reservations with that stuff making a good attachment and purchase with the wood, so I always make up a few drops of the liquid 5 min epoxy stuff to brush onto the wood surface to ensure bonding, but I found out on the last bedding trip, that is really not necessary. The putty adheres very well to the wood alone.

With groups like th at, I would say you have real promise in that rifle. I would do the rear part and then play with your nylon washers under the barrel until you get it to print like it does with those groups of 3 you see it can do. It will do well with SK or possibly even Federal Auto Match. I would test both.

http://www.faststone...zerDownload.htm

Try this for a resizer, TD. It allows you to drop the photo's onto the software form, and then set how big you want it. It will also do whole folders of pics and give them new more meaningful names you can recognize, and then renumber them. It is free, and fast. I use it all the time.

Download it, and install it, and PM me and I will get with you online and give a primer ( probably 5 min worth ) and you will be set to go. ( You use Skype? )

#20 Technical Director

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Posted 25 September 2010 - 07:27 PM

Hey LongPlay, thanks for the picture thingy link. I will give that a try and if it turns out to be clear as mud I will definately give you a hollar Posted Image. Still have to put Skype on this new computer, so this give me some incentive to do so. You do know I sorta shifted gears in my thread and those last two targets are from my Remington 511X and not the 10/22, yes?

However, I would like to lock down the back end of the 10/22 a bit more and will most likely use some of that epoxy stick material. It pretty solid right now, but in light of there not being a second action screw I suspect there's still a little bit of wiggle/whip during the firing sequence. After having fine tuned the 10/22 pillar last night (took it down a fraction), I'll see how it papers next week during my once a week range day. Not going to start work on my 511X until I finish my 10/22. That way I can apply anyting I've learned from one project onto the next project.

Quasi floating barrels by relocating the chin rest with those plastic washers have really worked well for me. They're very stable and weather proof too when compared to a businees card. I commented to one of my gunsmith range buddies that instead of using a business card under the barrel (at times) he should use a $100 bill and list that type of barrel/action work as his VIP services and charge an extra $100 to boot. He did seem to give that comment some really deep thought Posted Image. When you think about it, a piece of paper currency is actually pretty durable as that stuff makes it through both the washer and dryer when left behind in pants pockets.

Edited by Technical Director, 25 September 2010 - 07:28 PM.


#21 hrt4me

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Posted 03 October 2010 - 08:33 PM

Thanks for the good info




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