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453 Extractor Problem


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#1 HectorHunter

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Posted 02 January 2008 - 02:05 PM

I'm having intermittent trouble with my CZ453 Varming (22LR). It has difficulty consistently ejecting unfired rounds. The round just sits in the chamber, and no matter how many times I work the bolt it won't come out. My only recourse is to fire the round, and then the shell extracts. I can't figure out what's going on. The two extractor claws look a bit unevenly worn, but that seems unlikely as the rifle is was purchased new and I've probably fired less than 200 rounds from it. I don't have any problems ejecting fired cases.

I've been out squirrel hunting with this rifle, and when I'm ready to pack it in and head back home I can't empty the chamber of the last unfired round, so I wind up having to fire it to unload the rifle. It's not a lot of ammo, but at 6 bucks a box for the Eley Subsonic Hollow Points I use I hate using up a round for nothing.

Thanks in advance for any ideas.

#2 recumbent

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Posted 02 January 2008 - 02:44 PM

Does it do this with All brands of ammo or just one brand?

When it does this tap the loaded round out with a cleaning rod or wood dowl rod.
examine the bullet for signs of rifling marks.

It sounds like the ammo in question is engraving the rifling, this is good for accuracy but bad for extraction.

I would try a different brand of ammo and I think you won't have any more problems.

Some bullet shapes cause this.

#3 HectorHunter

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Posted 02 January 2008 - 04:00 PM

I've only been using the Eley Subsonic HPs because they group so exceptionally well from this rifle. I'll try a few other brands and see if the problem is specific to this cartridge.

If this were to happen with other brands as well, is there a mechanical reason that might cause this behavior?

Thanks for the ideas!


Does it do this with All brands of ammo or just one brand?

When it does this tap the loaded round out with a cleaning rod or wood dowl rod.
examine the bullet for signs of rifling marks.

It sounds like the ammo in question is engraving the rifling, this is good for accuracy but bad for extraction.

I would try a different brand of ammo and I think you won't have any more problems.

Some bullet shapes cause this.



#4 Pdwight

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Posted 02 January 2008 - 06:28 PM

I've only been using the Eley Subsonic HPs because they group so exceptionally well from this rifle. I'll try a few other brands and see if the problem is specific to this cartridge.

If this were to happen with other brands as well, is there a mechanical reason that might cause this behavior?

Thanks for the ideas!







Remove your bolt and look at it end on...like the bullet would be facing you if it had one in the claws of the extractor. Then push out on both extractors and see if they bind or do not travel symmetrically. Next carefully take off the spring and remove the extractors and look for build up behind them, clean if you find anything....tooth pics work well. Something I have had to do with 4 of my CZ rifles is to take some 400 grit sand paper on a sheet of glass and push the extractor across the sand paper, do both sides of each extractor. You will quickly see that the extractors are punched out and not milled. Usually they are a little warped or concave...this polishing will help them to work better...you shouldn't need much polishing to get them flat. Be careful with the spring when reassembling.



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#5 Carl

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Posted 02 January 2008 - 06:43 PM

If you have to tap the bullet very hard at all with a rod, you are probably pushing the bullet into the rifling, which is an indication of a match chamber. This should then be noticable when chambering the round... does the bolt seem to close fairly hard? My target rifle is that way... I cannot extract an unfired round. It is chambered with a Winchester 52D chamber reamer, which is the shortest of the match chambers and it is very noticable when chambering a round... the bolt is noticably harder to cam shut than most rifles. I have never measured the marks on a bullet, but it is definately pushed into the rifling. It's very possible the Varmint version of the 452 has a match chamber.
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#6 recumbent

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Posted 02 January 2008 - 07:53 PM

Remove your bolt and look at it end on...like the bullet would be facing you if it had one in the claws of the extractor. Then push out on both extractors and see if they bind or do not travel symmetrically. Next carefully take off the spring and remove the extractors and look for build up behind them, clean if you find anything....tooth pics work well. Something I have had to do with 4 of my CZ rifles is to take some 400 grit sand paper on a sheet of glass and push the extractor across the sand paper, do both sides of each extractor. You will quickly see that the extractors are punched out and not milled. Usually they are a little warped or concave...this polishing will help them to work better...you shouldn't need much polishing to get them flat. Be careful with the spring when reassembling.



Dwight



with the bolt pointing away from you the left one is the "Holder" the right side one is the 'Extractor". The extractor will be pointed on the end and the holder will be rounded. Don't get them switched around.

#7 Pdwight

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Posted 02 January 2008 - 10:28 PM

with the bolt pointing away from you the left one is the "Holder" the right side one is the 'Extractor". The extractor will be pointed on the end and the holder will be rounded. Don't get them switched around.





Good point, and Post
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#8 qtztwn

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Posted 07 August 2010 - 12:50 PM

I have encountered the same problem with all of my CZ452s. If I have a dead round, I have to push the bullet out of the chamber with a dowel stick which I always keep handy in case it happens during a match. I also encounter the same problem when I use empty casings for dry firing. In that instance about one case in four will not extract and I must push the empty casing out with a dowel stick.

This raises the question for dry firing as to whether or not it is really necessary to use an empty case? If not, is there a simple way to test that an empty case is unnecessary? I have even thought of purchasing an extra bolt with the firing pin ground down?

If polishing the extractor arms will improve extraction, is there a way this can be done without removing the arms from the bolt?

#9 40x513t

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Posted 08 August 2010 - 08:30 AM

I have encountered the same problem with all of my CZ452s. If I have a dead round, I have to push the bullet out of the chamber with a dowel stick which I always keep handy in case it happens during a match. I also encounter the same problem when I use empty casings for dry firing. In that instance about one case in four will not extract and I must push the empty casing out with a dowel stick.

This raises the question for dry firing as to whether or not it is really necessary to use an empty case? If not, is there a simple way to test that an empty case is unnecessary? I have even thought of purchasing an extra bolt with the firing pin ground down?

If polishing the extractor arms will improve extraction, is there a way this can be done without removing the arms from the bolt?


You might try giving Denny(brnoman) a n email and get some of the older BRNO extractors- they are thicker an seem to work better- you might try polishing and recontouring the hooks on the extractor and holder- there is a sticky on the RFC CZ thread that shows this

Edited by 40x513t, 08 August 2010 - 08:35 AM.


#10 qtztwn

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Posted 18 August 2010 - 09:26 AM

In a match this past week end (15aug10), a round went off in my CZ452 but the extractor failed to pull the case. I had to leave the line, go to my gun case pull out my wooden dowel and push out the case. Although not the best I did manage to finish after all of that in the allotted time. But what a pain.

#11 Pdwight

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Posted 18 August 2010 - 10:04 AM

In a match this past week end (15aug10), a round went off in my CZ452 but the extractor failed to pull the case. I had to leave the line, go to my gun case pull out my wooden dowel and push out the case. Although not the best I did manage to finish after all of that in the allotted time. But what a pain.


Were you by any chance shooting Eley Sport ?
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#12 qtztwn

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Posted 20 August 2010 - 08:51 AM

No, I was not using Eley Sport. In the past, it has usually happened using CCI standard velocity. This time I was using a match grade ammo the brand for which I cannot currently mention. I don't think it is the ammo, I think it is with the CZ extractor.




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